Gail Pfoh wrote 11/02/2007 05:40 PM Crate training #160824 - 11/02/2007 05:40 PM
Gail Pfoh Webboard User Reg: 09-09-2007 Posts: 13 Loc: Offline	Our female GSD was born July 15th. We've had her since Sept. 8th & the past 10 days or so her crate training is regressing ! It seems to me she is not emptying her bladder when she goes outside. Our Vet suggested that I take her out to pee, crate her for 10 min. then take her again. I've been doing this with fair success but she seems to have to pee quite frequently. I also think her urine has an odor - - - I can smell it when I come in the room. Today I took her out to the bathroom TWICE after her lunch & then crated her. My office is in my home. About 10 min. later she was barking but I was on the phone for business and didn't go to her. Plus I thought she must be barking for attention because HOW COULD SHE NEED to go again already?? Her barking became frantic. When I opened her crate she had urinated so much you would have thought she hadn't gone in hours! ! Note that she does NOT bark when she wets in the house she only barks AFTER she's done it because she doesn't want to be in it or near it. The other 'accidents' she's had have been primarily when she is in her "playpen". Today's mess was the first with so much volume. Other times it seems to be very small amounts. I do the "good outside" all the time & she had been very very good. Could this be a UTI or could her bladder be too small for her age? At the Vet's suggestion I don't give her water after 8pm. I always take her outside before I go to sleep. She's been sleeping til at least 5:45 or 6:15 am & is dry when I take her from her crate. The problems are always during the day! She is never left alone longer than 2 hours. Any help you can offer would greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/02/2007 05:46 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Gail Pfoh ] #160825 - 11/02/2007 05:46 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	The vet did not suggest a urine culture?? The vet knows all this, including the odor?
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Gail Pfoh wrote 11/02/2007 05:59 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #160830 - 11/02/2007 05:59 PM
Gail Pfoh Webboard User Reg: 09-09-2007 Posts: 13 Loc: Offline	I didn't mention the smell the last time we spoke (about 10 days ago). She did not suggest a culture; what would that look for? We go for another puppy visit on Monday. Another thing is that she has Giardia since we bought her & we are having trouble getting rid of it, but I don't think that is related to this problem. She has never had a bm in her crate or in the house.
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Kori Bigge wrote 11/02/2007 06:19 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Gail Pfoh ] #160832 - 11/02/2007 06:19 PM
Kori Bigge Webboard User Reg: 10-08-2007 Posts: 611 Loc: Kansas Offline	My puppy had Giardia when I got him. The breeder had already given him 5 days of Panacur, but when I got him, he still had diarrhea. My vet checked, he still had Giardia, so he ended up having 2 more rounds of Panacur. No results. She finally tried Metronidazole, and his diarrhea cleared up in LESS than 24 hours. No problems since. But I noticed his urine had a TERRIBLE smell (not just the pee smell, but way worse), when he was on the meds for Giardia. That might have something to do w/the odor you're noticing. But, I would ask for a urine culture as well. She might have a UTI, since it sounds like she was doing really well before and she's "regressing". She might have an infection. Infection can also cause an odor, by the way. Good luck. I know how frustrating it is to take good care of a puppy, and still have problems. Let us know how it turns out.
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Gail Pfoh wrote 11/02/2007 06:23 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Kori Bigge ] #160833 - 11/02/2007 06:23 PM
Gail Pfoh Webboard User Reg: 09-09-2007 Posts: 13 Loc: Offline	Thanks for your input . . . just to mention that even though you don't have diarrhea (we don't) you can STILL have the Giardia. The stool samples have to be sent to a lab & centrifuged; apparently it tests negative at the Vet office, but samples are generally 'floated' there, not centrifuged. 3 times it has tested neg at the Dr. but then it is positive from the Lab. We've had 2 rounds of Pancur & a round of Flagyl in between. Again . . . thanks & be careful w/the Giardia!
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Carol Boche wrote 11/02/2007 06:26 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Gail Pfoh ] #160834 - 11/02/2007 06:26 PM
Carol Boche Webboard User Reg: 10-30-2005 Posts: 4531 Loc: South Dakota, USA Offline	I would definitely take a urine sample to the vet. Is the pup drinking lots of water? What color is the urine (pale yellow or dark)? What meds is she on for Giardia? And, are you sure she is eliminating outside and not just squatting to make it look like she is going? You mention that she urinates in the house.....the best way to get her housebroke is to keep her tethered to or with you at least at all times. When she wakes up, after she eats or plays, it is time to go outside for a potty break. Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/02/2007 06:35 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Carol Boche ] #160837 - 11/02/2007 06:35 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: carol boche I would definitely take a urine sample to the vet. Ditto. Do you know how to do a "clean catch"? Despite the possibility of meds causing odor, a urine culture is so easy, so inexpensive, and so helpful..... I'm kind of stunned that it wasn't the first thing the vet said. IME, just about all urinary issues are addressed with ruling out a UTI first. A dog who is alternating dribbles with floods -- that's enough for me to take in a sample.
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Gail Pfoh wrote 11/02/2007 09:21 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #160850 - 11/02/2007 09:21 PM
Gail Pfoh Webboard User Reg: 09-09-2007 Posts: 13 Loc: Offline	I've never done a clean catch - - - should I just let the Vet do it when we go on Monday? Does it have to be the 1st morning sample? Thanks so much for everyone's help.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/02/2007 09:30 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Gail Pfoh ] #160851 - 11/02/2007 09:30 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Gail Pfoh I've never done a clean catch - - - should I just let the Vet do it when we go on Monday? Does it have to be the 1st morning sample? Thanks so much for everyone's help. Oh, you already have an appointment? Clean catch: For some things, it's not particularly important. But when you're looking for bacteria, it's better to start with a clean catch in order not to have the spec contaminated by bacteria that may be around the opening to the urethra but have nothing to do with the bladder and kidneys. So you let the stream start (and wash away any bacteria around the urethra) and then catch midstream and get the rest. It's pretty easy with an aluminum pie pan, and a covered jar ready nearby. Just be really calm about it and don't flash the pie pan around too much first. :>
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Connie Sutherland wrote 11/02/2007 09:33 PM Re: Crate training [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #160852 - 11/02/2007 09:33 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	P.S. I don't know whether it matters about the first voiding of the day for this. It does for struvite crystals, and it might for a UTI. You could ask the vet.
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