Not Sure What to Make of This
#162791 - 11/13/2007 10:32 PM |
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Howdy All,
As I was reading the site that Terra P. posted a link to in regarsd to the breed of her new pup (White English Bulldog aka WEB) I was just stricken by the very first paragraph on the front page.
Taken from http://bttbab.com
"There is a huge difference between the WEB and ALL other bull breeds. The WEB will catch AND RELEASE ON COMMAND. This is an inherent trait in them, unlike other breeds, where they must be trained to release or "out" on command. The WEB is born with this ability. It's as natural to a WEB as is lifting his leg to pee. The WEB is very unlike all other bull breeds because of this as well as other major differences. With other breeds, the release or "out" is a breaking stick, that is if it has not had formal training. Not so with the WEB. The reason for this is because the WEB was bred to do so. The WEB that won't release on command is culled on the spot, sometimes given away to hog hunters. This culling has kept this trait very dominant in the WEB. What's unfortunate is that these WEB that are not "proper" that have given away as hog-dogs because of their unwillingness to release on command are still being called WEB. They are; in form but not in function. A WEB MUST be true to form and function to be accepted by the WEBPS as the real deal. We will not breed these cull/cur WEB at all, we will not sell or give away these WEB. We will do as the old timers did and cull them on the spot. It is our mission to re-establish, not re-build, the true function of the WEB in this manner. If only those who gave away all those culls, (what were called curs), had known what would happen to the WEB by doing so. We've had to go out and find the WEBs that are true to form and function to start over with, breeding only those dogs and culling the offspring that aren't true/proper WEB.
That is our stand and our goal, the preserve the true old type WEB before the popularity of hog hunting and the rise of the cull/cur WEBs take hold as the mainstream, leading many to believe that hog hunting is the true function of the WEB. It is the function of the WEB cull/curs, not the true old type WEB.
It's a hard, hard struggle, not just finding the dogs, but informing people of the original function of the WEB, not as a hunting dog that requires a breaking stick to release, but a livestock dog that is born with an immaculate on and off switch. This is one of the things that sets the WEB apart from all other breeds, and why we say they are indeed, "A Breed Apart"."
I had never heard of the WEB prior to her post, and I truly still know nothing about them as I couldn't wrap my head around that intro.
Am I being dense? Not attempting in any way to insult the breeders or owners of this breed, or anybody for that matter. Just curious as to other opinions...
~Jenn M.
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162801 - 11/13/2007 11:08 PM |
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I apologize if this seems in bad taste? I have absolutely ZERO intentions of causing a problem here. I do not mean this as a slight to the WEB as a breed in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM! I do not think any breed is better than another. I am just interested in viewpoints regarding the inherited "out" versus the trained "out." I have never heard of an inherited "command" in this way. I would have posted this if I had read a site that stated the same thing about Jack Russel Terriers or Chow Chows.
If this is inappropriate I ask a Mod to remove it and apologize!
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162803 - 11/13/2007 11:13 PM |
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I cannot wait to read opinions on the "inherited out" of "a livestock dog that is born with an immaculate on and off switch."
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#162804 - 11/13/2007 11:18 PM |
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Thanks Connie, I got a PM from a user, I am not trying to insult the WEB, or breeders, trainers, owners, etc.
Edit: Reword
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162807 - 11/13/2007 11:24 PM |
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So if I've read this right, you give a release command and the dog drops it? Just like that? No prior training?
True
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#162808 - 11/13/2007 11:28 PM |
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My question is.. how does the dog know the release command from birth? How is a dog to know if the owner will use "out" or "cease" or "leave it" or "drop it" .. etc.. or in a different language?
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162809 - 11/13/2007 11:33 PM |
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From my understanding, the "out" is a training and rank issue.
Maybe they mean that they breed dogs with very a strong pack drive who are more easily controlled than other similar breeds.
There's no way that a dog is born knowing commands so you'd still have to train it. My guess is that they breed softer more handler-sensitive dogs with less dominance issues than the usual working lines so that they're easier for the average person to handle.
That's the only way I can make any sense out of what they're saying...
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Yuko Blum ]
#162811 - 11/13/2007 11:38 PM |
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Definitely makes sense, Yuko. Maybe I wasn't being so dense, it's just the wording of it that gets me. I do not doubt the ability of the dogs and the handler sensitivity, but the way I read it made it seem like the dog born knowing what the actual command/word "out" means. To me, that is like saying my dog was born knowing to sit or down.
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162812 - 11/13/2007 11:49 PM |
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Maybe they just don't understand pack drive (or feel that their site visitors won't understand and are "dumbing" things down for them).
Then again if you have a really soft, submissive, handler-sensitive dog and you give it a harsh "OUT!!!" when it's holding something, chances are the dog will spit it right out even without training...
I'm just guessing here, and really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt
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Re: Not Sure What to Make of This
[Re: Jennifer Marshal ]
#162813 - 11/13/2007 11:57 PM |
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No, of coarse he has had to be taught to "drop it" or "out" or any word you want to use, it's just that he is very observant and focused to what I want and training him basic commands has been very easy compared to some of the other dogs I have owned in the past. He is not submissive at all and is definitly is a fast learner or I'm just getting better at training dogs lol.
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