should i continue using the prong? this is what i'm wondering.

teagan is currently on the prong.

a few times when i have corrected her for aggressive behaviour (towards other dogs), she has escalated - not to the point i worried for my or luc's safety (it's not that she's going after luc, but once she obviously connected the correction to him...oops!).

it's not happening all the time, but - i'm wondering if the prong is the best collar for her given that. i don't know that she's a 'true' dominant dog, though she's definitely more dominant than luc, fought me physically when we were in the initial stages of her wearing the prong, and will go after any dog (as she gets comfortable in her new home, she has expanded from just going after the under-30lb snacks) that gets in her face or in anyway is not absolutely respectful on approach. she demands respect like i've never seen in another dog (keeping in mind my vast experience, ha!).

so....is a dominant dog collar a good choice for her? she's very strong. i know they're a different material than choke collars, does having the collar in a different material really stop the injuries from occuring which are associated with a choke collar? i can't help but be paranoid about that.

or is a prong a good option for her, and just be careful about the corrections? i think her escalations have occured when i haven't quite been quick enough to catch her prior to full-blown aggressive behaviour (generally going after the other dog, barking/growling is very rare from her).

I won't speak directly to the question, since I don't have any idea how to handle that specific situation, but I will say this: Since she displays signs of being aggressive, whatever collar you decide to go with in the long term, you need a coupler. A coupler is a 1 or 2 inch piece of nylon with a clip on one end and a ring on the other. You attach the clip to your flat leather collar and the ring goes into the clip on your leash with the ring of the prong. That way, if your prong disengages at the worst time (which is the only time they ever do, of course) you'll still be able to restrain her. My shelties has turned prong-slipping into an art form, he's gotten out of his prong 4 times now. If he were dog aggressive, that would spell trouble.

you're right....i should search out one, b/c i really don't want to see her get into a fight and/or kill a smaller dog.

the other problem i have with her with the prong is she's so furry around her collar i can never really see what's going on with the collar - which, actually, is all the more reason i definitely need a coupler.

she's not always aggressive, it's really only if the other dog doesn't behave properly (or if it's small, then it's like a squirrel to her). we've been in the park when holly (a 15 yo standard poodle) has come in, holly minds her own business (or does around teagan, anyways....when i just had luc, holly was a lot more forward), and teagan could care less. but if a dog barks at her, or approaches in a forward fashion - then we have a disagreement about whether or not she needs to be giving manners lessons.

i guess - the prong seems more substantial then the DD collar as well, which psychologically gives me more comfort, however erroneus that may or may not be (am i wrong in that?).

I think you need a few more suggestions as far as the dominant dog collar. I think it would be the right one to use instead of the prong. The prong might put more drive in her, not something you want if she's being aggressive. The DD collar only has about an inch give to it so you have instant control. A choke chain slips over the dog's head so there are several inches slack and I think the trachea injuries occur when the choke chain is jerked instead of lifting the dog's head up with it. No slack in the DD collar, you just lift up.

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i know they're a different material than choke collars, does having the collar in a different material really stop the injuries from occuring which are associated with a choke collar? i can't help but be paranoid about that.

The injuries associated with choke collars emerge as a result of improper use of these collars (ie popping the leash, or harsh corrections). This is not the way you will use your dominant dog collar. You will raise the dog's front legs to prevent it from breathing. If done this way, you don't have to worry about injuring your dog's neck.

I'll leave the actual question as to whether you should use this collar or a prong to someone who actually knows what they are talking about. I've never had to deal with this.

Hi Jennifer,

I'm no expert on this subject, but from what I've experienced, having the DD collar on my dog is best in situations like inside, or in closer quarters where he isn't "walking" so much as just needing to "behave" when I know he could be tempted to be a jerk. Proper walking outside, or jogging or whatever, really benefited from the prong because he won't pull through that (the DD collar IS still a choke, thus not as effective for general control as the prong - it just gives you a serious, breathless (for the dog) correction should you need it.)

I'd be wary of walking her with only the DD collar if she's as strong and sometimes difficult to control (a puller) as you've mentioned. Keep in mind that the DD collar, to be as effective as possible, really needs to be in perfect position at all times (just under the jaw - like the prong) and your correction will need to be well timed (as with any correction) - additionally, a STRONG correction for a big dog, using a DD collar, takes more effort than a prong correction, you need to be able to lift the dog's front feet off the ground. I'm not discouraging you from trying it out - it never hurts to experiment with what works best for your dog - but it is a very different collar than a prong, and I personally have much more success with the prong. However, my dog has never escallated from a prong correction...

It is suggested (as David did) that you have a safetly measure in place when using the prong anyway - Ed often reccommends that that safety device be a DD collar that is simultaneously attached to the lead, with the prong. You won't get the EFFECT of a DD correction this way, it's only there as a backup, but perhaps you could do some testing with it this way... have Teagan wear both, with the DD as a backup collar, then (in a quiet setting) attach the leash to only the DD and continue walking. If there are any small dogs around and Teagan gets aggressive, you can try a DD correction... if you don't like it, or it doesn't work the way you want, you can wait until the distraction is passed and switch the lead back to the prong and DD collar.

Also, just as a note, I have a lead that has a "traffic" handle built into it (a second loop for your hand that's right down near where it attaches to the collar) - I LOVE this lead because it gives me a very solid hold close to the collar that makes corrections easier... no matter what collar you're using, I highly reccomend it!

Good luck!
~Natalya

thanks sandy and richard.

sandy - i guess more drive is a good way of putting how she's reacted a couple of times. what it reminded me of was actually something i have no experience with but have heard described - the use of an e-collar/stim when a dog is fighting/being aggressive and the bad reaction it can cause.

but it's not all the time - like i said, i think it's a handler error where i don't catch her quick enough and she's a bit more aggressive/in a higher drive when i do deliver the correction (sharp tug and leave it! i generally use for other dogs/animals, depending....that's what i'm trying for w/the preventative).

okay, i'm liking the description of the DD collars a lot more. i was reading about them in the theory of corrections article and missed those distinctions. i wonder if i can buy in a store here or if i should order.

the prong is really great for her pulling (she heels well, but sometimes wishes to go explore), i guess i could put a prong and DD collar together, but i'd still have to be careful about triggering her up further with a mis-timed correction. i'm pretty good but i don't always catch her quickly enough.

thanks natalya! i've tried her w/just a martingale, and it was marginally effective - wonder if that wouldn't be the same as just a DD collar.

i think i'm going to go w/both and just work on being on the ball about catching her aggressive moments.

a lead w/a traffic handle sounds nice! i've seen collars like that, but never a lead....i'm jealous! right now i just hold the top loop, and then the lead about 2 feet from the collar. i used to wrap it around my hands but when inevitably it tightened my poor hands were unimpressed. also just hanging onto it gives me a bit more freedom if i need it.

edited: i have lifted her off her front feet and held her like that before (when we were first using the prong and she fought me - i was unimpressed with her rearing up/around and pawing at me on the shoulder. it worked after the second time, she learnt not to be rude to me when i put the prong on her)

I'm going back to the original question here. Only you can determine which collar is best for your dogs temperament. With the prong you can easily make a situation worse on certain dogs temperaments, either by escalating their aggression or the dog could shut down. I think it's best to go for the DD collar for aggression, because in my one dogs case it's the only collar that stops her fixation on the other dog and back to focusing on me. With either a prong or a DD I would use a backup collar either with a coupling to a flat leather or connect the leash to a loose choke collar.

The DD is not used the same way as a choke collar so it should not injure the dog like other posters said.

A few words of advice, start learning to read the dogs body language, the instant she starts correct her for it, this is the most important thing to learn when controlling a dominant dog.

Kimberly

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

i used to wrap it around my hands but when inevitably it tightened my poor hands were unimpressed.

I used to do the same with an older regular flat lead we had - I always felt like a bull rider in the chute, wrapping the strap around my hand in preparation for a bumpy ride! Ahhh, to think of the stress and trouble we went through before we found Leerburg, and proper training aids, and effective methods, and just more general common sense

~Natalya