Ok. I'm putting this post in SchH USA only because I do want to title this dog and his OUT is, well, rather important for SchH.

I admit, I screwed up early on in training the out, rushing it and also basic "body memory" from my last dogs over 20 years on yanking it away and up out of reach of the dog (those dogs didn't come climbing up me like I was a tree!!!).

SO. Now, I'm doing it differently. He's coming a long. Better definately when my hands are on the tug. I say out, let HIM take his mouth off and back up, not moving the tug, then of course continuing our game.

However, when my hands are off the tug and I say out, he's doing this thing where he'll hold on to it, I say no, then have recently tried literally getting up and walking away. He then, every time, spits the toy out. !!!!

I was stumped. So. Instead of playing into his antics, I just ignored it, let him pick it up again and started over. I'm starting to see some results, but not pushing him hard with it...I want this to be right. When I say out, it means out.

Oh, another interesting thing, when he has something he shouldn't have (and he knows it, like one of my son's toys, or the remote, or something like that) and he's running off with it, I say out and he OUTS IMMEDIATELY. WHAT's with that???

(sucks too, cuz generally, if its the remote which he rarely grabs anymore, it tends to drop on the hardwood, and the cover flies off and the batteries go everywhere too. Ugh.)

Any thoughts on where I'm at with this and where to go with it? I want it perfect. "OUT" and he outs.

Sounds like you have the right idea for the most part. The "game" aspect is very important. Each "out" should be the beginning of a new game. When he releases completely mark/release then start again. The problem lies in the final out of the game. That is the one where you are done and it is time to quit. He can read your body language and knows he is fixing to lose the toy. This adds a little conflict to the out once in a while.

With that being said, you might find it beneficial to use another command for the final "out" or the "put that remote down Mr.". I am doing this with my newest pup. I use "aus" for the out during the game so there is never any conflict with the "aus" command. When we are done and it is time to quit is say "give it". Of course there is a little conflict (growling/doesn't immediately release)with the "give it" but that's ok. He never hears that command on the field. He only hears "aus" which means "let's play again". So, I use "give it" for the final out and to get him to release things that he is not suppose to have.

I am not sure if this helps, but you may find less conflict in the "aus". This advice was givien to me from a very successful training partner and it seems to work like a charm. Give it a try.

It's normal for a dog to out regular everyday items easier than a tug or ball that we are using as a prey object. How old is he?

10 months.
Just a lil background, he has been on a helper several times. My current TD has recommended I get the pup to out readily to avoid the "rollercoaster" effect with his drive during protection training. (IE: high drive, bite, OUT and pup waits for a bit to out, won't release, lowers drive, finally outs, then have to rev him back up again...not that it takes much) but the time too to do this...

Currently, we are on a bite work hiatus until I get a lot more solid on out.

Try having him out and trade another tug/ball for the one he has. So the progression is... Drive, Rest, Out for trade, and back into drive. Sorry, I forgot about this post for a bit! Try not to go overboard with outing or he will get mouthy.

Why drive, rest, out? When does it turn into drive, out, drive?

You are very close to what Ivan is doing. 1. allow the bite.
2. Out(aus) whatever you say. No tension on the tug. (this is essential) If the dog backs up go with him. If he creates tension or begins to mouth say no or whatever your command is. 3. The second he lets go, mark, and rebite. This is called the game. The proof is in the pudding. Ivan has won many competitiions in his day and still is.

That's what I'm doing...no tension on the tug...the dog releases and backs off, but IMO, is still in drive...I want him in drive when he outs and stay in drive for that YES when he goes on the rebite.

He's doing very well now, BTW. He's even outing when I'm 5 feet away and say OUT. This of course is at home...he did fairly well at club last week, will see how he does tonight. IMO, it takes some time for him to get it fully learned under the distractions of club, etc...

I'm staying consistant. Also, realized keeping the same firm tone, saying OUT exactly the same each time helps too!!!

I mentioned rest because that is characteristically when I would cradle a dog (you can't keep up prey movements forever). Drive for whatever exercise you are working on, bite, carry, cradle, AUS, and the game starts all over again.

Thanks for that description.

BTW. Cato is coming along real nice with AUS now. I am very pleased. What I did was inundate him with AUS, AUS, AUS....over and over and over...fast and upbeat, mentally KNOWING he can do it. It IS a game and thank god he loves it...(as do I).

I've been told: 3 things for a successful dog...
focus, (toy) drive and out...right? Get those down and ANYthing goes...