b/c luc has turned into the softest dog since we got his new herm springer prong. teagan is fine on the new one.

i had been walking luc on a flat collar, but he was starting to pull again and so we're doing a period on the prong again.

he can take a very soft correction back, but he keeps on self-correcting - especially in the park, he'll just pull somewhere (i have him and teagan on the traffic leads, so they're short) and he starts whining and shrieking like a baby. i've felt around his neck and i can't feel any damage caused by the collar (not that i was expecting it, but just in case).

it's quite irritating - has anyone else noticed this? could it be the different prong collar? or has time off the prong turned him into a baby now that he's on it again?

I have a H/S and an off brand. I don't notice any difference between the two and use them interchangably between my two GSDs w/out any differences.

My friends crafty GSD knew when the prong collar went on, it was no getting away with anything time. He would protest and act like the world was over for about 5-10 minutes. This behavior first started when my friend got worried the collar was hurting his neck and after a wimper and a whine would take it off and continue the walk with the flat collar, then suddenly he would perk up again. He was never over corrected and not a soft dog but a good human manipulator.

this is what i strongly suspect luc of....as he was fine before.

so far he's not getting much sympathy. mostly me going 'will you be QUIET! stop whining so much!' also me testing different corrections to see if he whines....he does not for minor corrections (i.e. forging ahead, not that he can do that a lot on the traffic lead anyways).

I have actually noticed more of a tendancy for off-brand or "generic" so to speak, prongs being sharp on the edges. This is just from being poorly made, however. A prong shouldn't be "sharp" as in having a cutting edge or being pointed, if it is, it is defective. I love HS products, been using their collars and bits(for my horses) for years.

If you are worried about a sharp edge, when at home and you have the prong off of the dogs, run your fingers along the collar to check - our skin is much thinner than that of a dogs, even a dog with thin skin generally has thicker skin than most humans, and the ridges caused by fingerprints "grab" at minute edges so you will be able to feel it.

I would check his neck to see if he has some other sort of injury or sore spot on his neck. Does he react at all to a flat collar correction or pressure from a flat collar? How long has he been without a prong collar?

He probably just needs to get used to it again, and is likely voicing his frustration at the lack of freedom. Watch his body language when he is "shreiking and whining" if he looks frightened, scared, hunkers down and looks startled he could be in pain or the prong might just be something he needs to become accustomed to, and just for good measure recheck the fit

If he stays upright and his tail is not tucked and he is still looking at whatever it was that caught his attention to cause him to lunge forward or dart here or there, then he is not likely to be in pain, and is reacting to his new boundaries and somewhat startled by the feeling of the collar.

A prong simulates/imitates the teeth of another dog, a correction on a prong is like a nip on the neck from the alpha.

This may not be the answer, but I thought I would add my two cents in. My same friend also has a horse that does the same thing, the mare figured out that when she didn't want to get taken out she would act lame and start limping. So my friend brings her back in the barn and miraculosly ( did I spell that right?) she was ok again. So again this was a learned behavior, the horse figured out she could limp and she would get brought back. Her dog the same thing.
After a couple of time it wasn't a coincidence any more.
I know this is a horse but goes to show you animals read us better then you think.

The Sprenger collars are generally higher quality than the brand-x variety.

One thing to look at is found at the ends of the prongs. The H-S collars, like the ones Leerburg sells, have rounded and polished ends. B-X's generally save a few bucks by skipping that step and chopping the wire off square. The square edges can dig into the dogs skin and cause small cuts. Sometimes, the wire cutter is a bit dull and it leaves small, sharp edges on the wire.

I suspect the Sprenger uses a higher grade wire for the prong links that is less susceptable to bending under a strong correction.

The H-S also seem to have better quality plating. My B-X's seem to rust more quickly.

he'd been off the prong about 4,5 weeks. i wonder if he's overreacting b/c of teagan as well. i've checked out his neck, no reaction, i can't feel any cuts either, so i don't think he has an injury.

i just self-corrected with it several times, it's definitely not sharp. no reaction to flat collar corrections.

thinking outloud here - since i started using the traffic leads, on the assumption the dogs don't want to do their business next to each other, as long as there is no other dog in the park, i let luc go and hang onto teagan (luc being more reliable....for the times his recall isn't perfect, he has an excellent sit from a distance). it's usually after he's gone (and has done some running around since teagan usually takes longer to go) and i get him on lead again he starts shrieking. he may very well be protesting his lack of freedom (plus, i think he is a softer dog than teagan anyways, but add it all together maybe).

thanks....this has been really frustrating me, i really wish he'd stop it. i'm sure it sounds like i'm being incredibly abusive to him whenever people walk by, plus it's just not nice for either of us. hopefully w/time this'll stop.

 Quote: Charlie Snyder

I suspect the Sprenger uses a higher grade wire for the prong links that is less susceptable to bending under a strong correction.

that could be it. the h-s are definitely nicer that our brand x one. i don't know that he's actually correcting himself hard enough to be making a difference, but i wonder if it's not a bunch of factors coming together.

The tips of the HS prongs are actually gently rounded, whereas the tip of a standard prong is just a piece of cut steel. I agree with Jenn Marshal and so many others, you can't beat HS for quality.

Don't ignore Luc if you think he's in pain, he might have some physical malady. It's possible for us to get too caught up in the "stop whining" mentality and ignore a real symptom, it's a tough line to walk. no pressure or anything.