What do you guys think? I may have my reservations about the dominant dog collar but I absolutely hate the idea of choke chains.
I told a client today I would put a prong on my dog (and i do) before even thinking of choke chains because of the safety aspect. Do you guys agree? Have you heard stories of chokes damaging dogs necks or am I being a pansy?

Choke chains are a very dangerous tool if used the wrong way, and they actually suck as a training tool.

I will take a prong or DD collar any day. The DD collar is a great tool. My dogs wear them.

Why the reservations on the DD collar?

There's a recent thread that cites a study of choke chains on fifty dogs, something like 45 of them had severe neck and throat trauma at the end of their lives, vs. 1 of 50 on a prong.

I read that too, i never thought it was so bad. Too bad so many people see a prong collar and automatically think your barbaric.

DD collar because I find something intimately wrong with restricting an animals air supply as a punishment. Even a well deserved one. Emergency situations are different but in general I would much rather use a different tool even if it takes longer or is less effective(as long as the dog and handler stay safe). One of those personal feelings.

 Quote: Benjamin Colbert

DD collar because I find something intimately wrong with restricting an animals air supply as a punishment. Even a well deserved one. Emergency situations are different but in general I would much rather use a different tool even if it takes longer or is less effective(as long as the dog and handler stay safe). One of those personal feelings.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the idea of a correction was to stop the behavior being displayed, not to punish.

Benjamin, can you elaborate on why you feel restricting the air the way the dominant dog collar does is wrong as well as provide an alternative which is as humane & effective?

When a dog becomes dominant/aggressive towards other animals or his handler, corrections such as those delivered by a pinch collar or ecollar usually serve to only increase the aggression of the animal, and therefore can even escalate the situation.

Rick, effective punishment should diminish the action being corrected(i.e. a leash correction with a prong on a dog who has disobeyed a command is punishment).

Susan, I don't have enough expertise with aggression to answer this completely but for a dog that shows aggression towards animals or people as a consistent behavior I would first try counter conditioning with positive reinforcement. One of the problems in correcting aggressive behavior is that you may not be correcting the behavior only the symptoms. This may manifest itself when the dog has decided its had enough but has been punished in the past for growling or nipping so it skips these and goes straight for a real bite.

I second Susan's comments. The Dominant Dog collar is used in situations where the animals are dangerous to themselves, the handler, or other animals. Prong or ecollar stimulation generally only increases the level of aggression in an animal - rather than taking the drive out of the dog it creates MORE.

Dominant Dog collars are not used in every day life for every day things, a dog should not be "hanged" for sniffing at something it shouldn't or for breaking a heel, etc. DD collars are and should be reserved for certain situations with certain dogs where aggression plays a factor.

This reminds me of the very common issue people have seperating two very very different things.

Discipline, and Punishment.

Discipline (aka correction) is rules based, it is "this is the law, it will be obeyed, if not obeyed, there are immediate consequences." The point of discipline/correction is teaching/learning.

Punishment (aka abuse) is revenge based. It is "I'm gunna get you for what you did!" Being "punished" is something that is done out of anger and frustration, the POINT of punishment is to cause fear, pain, and anxiety in the person or thing that is being punished.

I use the word punish in the operant conditioning sense:
positive reinforcement- food for sitting
negative reinforcement- stimulating e-collar until dog returns
positive punishment- leash correction
negative punishment- not giving food for not sitting

negative is removing something (stim or food)
positive is adding something (food or correction)

reinforcement should make the behavior occur more often
punishment should make it occur less