From your experiences with your own dogs or with those you've trained for other people:

In the case of a dominant dog, will the bond he has with his owner be as deep as say a more submissive dog who desires to please you more than he desires his own way?

Does dominance get in the way of the bond?

From my experience dominance does not get in the way as long as you are consistent, fair, and assertive with the dog. Most of my dogs have been dominant, Cajun was a very dominant dog, but the bond I had with him was stronger than any other dog I've ever had. I think it depends on the handling of the dog, and that being the leader, being the alpha, is an absolute requirement.

IMO it also depends on the nerves and the courage/confidence level of the dog, a dominant dog with weak nerves and soft temperament will be untrusting of a heavy-handed person, but less of that has to do with dominance than with the softness of the dog.

Interesting subject Sandy!! A great one, I look forward to reading other people's viewpoints on this one.

I agree w/Jennifer. I don't think it makes a difference necessarily. I think it depends on how you deal w/the dog. In my case, my dominant dog obeys me 99% of the time and you wouldn't really know he was that dominant looking in from the outside. We went through some rocky times w/him trying to figure out how easy I was to push around (A for effort, but he lost, lol), but luckily, we were bonded enough that he never got nasty toward me-just stubborn. Now, enter other people into the equation, and all bets are off. He won't platz in the company of males, stares them down, stalks my boyfriend around the house while I'm in the shower , and in general makes it clear that he rules the roost. Sometimes I think he's MORE bonded to me b/c of his dominance in that he feels I am "his". Typical male-JOKE, people .

I think that consistency is key. If the result is always the same, they eventually will quit trying. I have been very successful at controlling the dominance toward me (I say control-not change, b/c I know it is still there...) but I have failed miserably at getting him to act any differently toward others, which I am ok with. It's simply who he is. If he's controllable by me, that's good enough. I actually think part of why we're so close is that he demands more from the relationship than to be fed and let out and petted. I notice a HUGE difference in his attitude depending upon how much quality time I have for him that week. They are strong-charactered dogs (don't think that's really a phrase, but you know what I mean), who demand respect and fairness, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I think one would really have to evaluate the amount of dominance in the dog. To what extent is it dominant? Does it want to rule the roost and have complete control over it's pack (human or not?) or is it just a dog that has dominant tendencies and attention demanding behaviors? Even with dominance I think there must be levels, am I right? If left unchecked I'm sure they can escalate up the ladder but with proper firm, fair and consistent leadership it can be controlled to such an extent that the respect of the owner is there enough to want to bond with them..don't you think? Just my thoughts...i dunno.

I had a chow that bonded very well with me who was not dominant in the least. He actually reminded me why dogs are called mans best friend. My current chow is very dominant and food/place agressive but he still bonded with me just as much. In the house he will usually lay somewhere near me wherever I am. He does this in the garage also. I'll be working on a saw and trip on him because I couldn't hear him come up from behind me. He is less agressive toward me, when food or place is concerned, than he is with anyone else. I really think the most important ingredient is good pack leader skills and spending positive time with your dog. Unfortunately he LOVES the snow and I hate being cold. I say unfortunately because playin in the snow it is!

 Quote: Sandy Moore

From your experiences with your own dogs or with those you've trained for other people:

In the case of a dominant dog, will the bond he has with his owner be as deep as say a more submissive dog who desires to please you more than he desires his own way?

Does dominance get in the way of the bond?

If you have a good leadership established, give fair and honest corrections when and if needed, and the dog knows the rules, then I do not think it would get in the way at all.

It is awesome to see a powerful dominant dog, in control and look to the handler with respect while still getting to keep his dignity and pride.

My Zorba Tiekerhook was my once-in-a-lifetime dog, we were extremely bonded, more than I have ever been with any other dog, and he was very, very dominant.

Jenni brings up a good point regarding dominance and "other people." An alpha controls the situations when the alpha is around.. such as the dog not being allowed to be aggressive or outwardly dominant towards another person, but the alpha MUST BE THERE, or the person in question must become dominant over the dog. Whent he alpha leaves the room, the dominant dog then becomes the leader of all those left in that room with that dog.

With that also said, I have also noticed a tendency with male and female dominant dogs that have handlers of the opposite sex to not have an alpha so much as a counterpart, but this I have seen develop mostly in dogs that did not receive proper, effective groundwork, or are with people that have a clue but can't see the whole page of the book. If you catch my meaning. I am speaking of dogs that are Obedient and non dominant to the handler but are possessive of the handler.

Ai, I ramble :laugh: I probably didn't say that very well.

Robbin also hit on another good point, there are definitely different levels of dominance, and different ways they manifest in the dogs depending on the other qualities and traits the dog has, such as is this dog sharp, or high driven in any way? A dog can be dominant and have very little drive for anything but perhaps, attention. A dog that is calm, relaxed, good natured, laid back, but doesn't listen and is "demanding" I see and have worked with a lot of goldens and labs this way.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

With that also said, I have also noticed a tendency with male and female dominant dogs that have handlers of the opposite sex to not have an alpha so much as a counterpart, but this I have seen develop mostly in dogs that did not receive proper, effective groundwork, or are with people that have a clue but can't see the whole page of the book. If you catch my meaning. I am speaking of dogs that are Obedient and non dominant to the handler but are possessive of the handler.

YES! True. I see two different types: the type that knows person is pushover, and gets away w/murder, while not really being dominant, per se. Then, the type that is dominant, but has a respect for opposite sex handler and tends to be possessive or protective (fine line!)I do see clear differences between opposite sex "team" and same sex. Caleb tends to be Mr.Charm to women, and Mr. Hateful toward men. He simply has no use for them, and behaves as if he has autism if commanded by a man. I have no problem w/OB w/him, and we are a great team in things like tracking, agility/obstacles, etc. While I do think some of what people see as "protective" is truly "territorial", I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing or even an indicator of poor leadership. I do think dogs perceive physical strength and weakness, and at least in my case, it definitely comes into play. My dog wasn't remotely protective w/my ex...a 240lb guy. W/me, he's Mr.Alert. Maybe I don't exude leadership, or maybe he simply realizes that he's physically more capable of defense.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

From my experience dominance does not get in the way as long as you are consistent, fair, and assertive with the dog. Most of my dogs have been dominant, Cajun was a very dominant dog, but the bond I had with him was stronger than any other dog I've ever had. I think it depends on the handling of the dog, and that being the leader, being the alpha, is an absolute requirement.

IMO it also depends on the nerves and the courage/confidence level of the dog, a dominant dog with weak nerves and soft temperament will be untrusting of a heavy-handed person, but less of that has to do with dominance than with the softness of the dog.

Interesting subject Sandy!! A great one, I look forward to reading other people's viewpoints on this one.

I have one of those dominant weak nerved soft dogs It has it's own set of very complex problems, I wish I could trade him in sometimes.

I see bonding more as a reflection of time/effort/energy put into the dog (in a proper, purposfull manner).

I also find that "bonding" means different things to different people.

If we are mostly in agreement that a dominant dog can be very well bonded to its owner, I would love to hear what people consider a "great bond" between handler and dog.