Looking for some ideas...

My dog and I have started our winter season at work. He comes to work with me but spends a lot of time kenneled.

We leave the house at 5:45 am and I would say he stays in the car (trunk is blocked off as a kennel by doggie gate thingy) until about 10:30 am, when I am done my morning control work.

He comes up the mountain with me and is kenneled up top. There are indoor and outdoor kennels and he is fine in both.

At about 4:45 pm we come down the mountain and he is kenneled in my car until we leave work at about 6 pm. By the time I get home it is often close to 7 pm.

So the dog is now refusing to get in the car. At best I am nagging him to get in the truck, at worst, taking him by the collar and dragging him in.

My dog that has never been a chewer or destroyer but is now chewing his bedding in the truck.

Things I have tried....

To reward him with a treat for getting in. Started out okay, but is now refusing the treats.

Leaving something to keep him occupied while kenneled...he will not touch anything remotely food related while in the car (never would despite being a very food motivated dog) and toys go untouched.

I should mention that he has never been a big fan of the car. he does not get sick, but he can't really lay down and get comfortable in the car either. He will cry in the car if I stop on the way home from work for groceries as if to say "13 hrs at work is long enough...no stopping....I WANT DINNER" kind of tantrum

Today near the end of the work day he actually ran form me when I tried to grab him by the collar and pulled away from me and the car as I led him there. We had a small lift up paws and look "eye to eye".

I must say that this dog is soft and has a LOOONGGG memory. I have felt that consistancy and not offering any choice in the matter was the best way to go, but things have started to deteriorate.

Ideas, comments? Dog is happy up at the mountain, and loves a chance to work and play. Other kennels up on the mountain seem fine, car is not It is winter and the car is probably the coldest of his kennels, but it has been warm (relatively) this week at -4 degrees celcius.

If he has no problem with the kennels "up top", could his issues with the car be a combination of too long/cold/cramped? Do you take him out for bathroom breaks and little romps during the 5 hrs in the morning that he is in the car? I would think he should be able to stretch a little & sniff around once an hour or so.

Just a quick clarity thing:

It's the 4.5 or so morning hours that's the big problem? Or the car-as-kennel, period?

Is there no way to do regular out-of-car breaks during that long stretch?

Also, it does sound cold when he can't really move. I don't know whether that's part of it..... what do you think?

There are pads that you microwave to warm up and that stay warm for a few hours, I learned about on this forum last winter, for my arthritic guy who I didn't know well enough yet to trust with a cord to a heating pad.

If he had a workout when you first got there and then had a warm bed, would that be a help?

Are there other options for where he stays for that long stretch?

 Quote: susan tuck

If he has no problem with the kennels "up top", could his issues with the car be a combination of too long/cold/cramped? Do you take him out for bathroom breaks and little romps during the 5 hrs in the morning that he is in the car? I would think he should be able to stretch a little & sniff around once an hour or so.

You posted while I was typing. :>

You said it better, but that's what I was thinking, too.

I would get out the clicker and start making a game out of getting in and out of the car.....do this on a day where you do not have to take him anywhere. I would probably make a dog like this eat his meals in the car too.... it may change his attitude. Dont' want to eat in the car??? No problem, let's try tomorrow.

It may be slow going at first, but I think you have been doing some other clicker stuff with him?

You could maybe practice the "game" with a crate first, so he understands what he needs to offer to get the click.

worth a try!

we go over how to do this with a crate in the pack structure dvd http://leerburg.com/308.htm

 Quote: susan tuck

If he has no problem with the kennels "up top", could his issues with the car be a combination of too long/cold/cramped? Do you take him out for bathroom breaks and little romps during the 5 hrs in the morning that he is in the car? I would think he should be able to stretch a little & sniff around once an hour or so.

Too cramped is not it, he has lots of space.

Too cold...well it certainly is VERY cold at times, but not today, his biggest refusal to date.

Too long is the biggest possiblity. In the car is long and the day is long overall. He can't get out every hr, not a chance.

On a bad day he gets out at 10 am from the car, it takes us 20 min to get up the mountain, some skiing and chairlifts. Then kenneled again. He may get out for two 15 min ob and play sessions during the day. Then a 20 min ski down the mountain at the end of the day. That is a bad day.

Admittadly there have been a few of those of late. However yesterday he had a big day including a real search (not too big, no one ended up being burried but searched as a precaution), does not seem change the car issue...

I do think the refusal comes from the anticipation of being stuck in there for a long while and him not finding a particularaly relaxing place. I just can't think of how to make it any better for him.

Can he be where you are for part of the time? Can there be a pre-heated pad?

(I was thinking cramped as in crampy from cold and no walking.)

A radio on? An assortment of toys that make noise and do things?


EDIT:
I just saw Cindy's post of the clicker game. Actually, that sounds a lot more positive than my ideas.

The not wanting to eat in the car isn't all at uncommon - a lot of dogs get car sick or just uneasy/stressed out in a vehicle whether it is moving or not. A parked car is no less stressful to a nervous dog that doesn't like a car - as a dog may know that the engine is not running by the sound but the dog never knows when a car is going to move when the engine is running anyways, they are always uneasy and stressed and uncomfortable because they are expecting to be put off balance with stops, gos, and turns.

I've had lots of dogs that love cars and dogs that no matter what were never comfortable in a vehicle. I would suggest that you go back to basics and markers with the car. Use toys instead of treats or mix them in together ... sniff car, mark reward, paw touch, mark reward, etc. It sounds like the car has become just one big huge negative thing - inadvertently it looks like you created more stress for him in regards to the car by forcing him. Don't worry though, it happens, we have all had to do it sometimes. I know I have.

I will say no more collar dragging if you can avoid it in any way - if you haeve to force him into the vehicle don't do it with your hand on the collar(use a leash), and don't "catch" him with your hands - use a leash out of sight of the car. Steps also work great if you have a vehicle that is higher up than most cars where a dog has to jump in, it is easier to get a dog paws up on a step and then to the car, it breaks the process into smaller easier steps.

Work on this on free time - leave the car open, progress from sniff car to paws up on step/car to in the car and then have him come out immediately once he is in there. His reward is getting to come back out of the car. In and out, in and out, in and out, and gradually increase the time in with the car open before releasing him to come out.

You may also want to try a portable crate that fits into the back of your car while you are working on this - put him in the crate out of sight of the car and then transport him in the crate to the car. This will help prevent you from ruining your own progress with having to force him into the car.

Just some suggestions!

Edit: I was posting when Cindy was, I am just so darned slow sometimes it took me like an hour haha. Feeding in the car, I heartily second that! I forgot to mention it but I do this also.

Okay, Cindy and Connie posted when I was typing

I do generally do a clicker session with him (fun and short) in the evenings. I could try the click and treat thing when we are not going anywhere. I was doing the mark and treat thing for getting in to and from work, but then he started to refuse the food.

I have a day off tomorrow, but we have to go up the mountain to train (search work, wich is fun for him) because I did not have time to fit it in on the clock this week

I don't have to spend 13 hrs there though and we could try some fun sessions before we go.

I was wondering about feeding him in the car. At present it is not raw friendly, I could put an old towel in there...

I thought maybe I should feed him at 4:30 pm when he has to go in the truck for the final hr +. So he anticipates something good and is not grumpy wanting to go home to eat. I will have to start this with the trunk open as I have closed him in with food before and it was cruel He drooled every ounce of fluid in his body, but didn't eat a thing I think if I start with gound food and the door open, he might eat.

What do you think of the timing and feeding him at work? Dinner often makes him hyper though...

Connie we do have some outdoor kennels at the base, uninsulated with straw. I may try to use them on some days, but they are not well devided inside and he hates sharing it when a dog is in the other side. The base kennel he is not thrilled about either.

So to answer your question I think it is a kennel thing AND a car thing. There is definatly a car issue, as it is an issue on days off and in the summer as well. Interestingly if I opened the front door he would jump right in...he likes to ride up front. The back he does not like so much.

Counting on extra kennel breaks and heat are not an option unfortunatly. I don't expect him to love it, the conditions are not grand, but I want to nag less and don't want to deal with outright refusals.

I think he enters the mountain kennel more readily as the alternatives are not as attractive. No pee-mail to read, no garbage to sniff up top. And staying outside in the weather for super long gets tedious as well so the mountian kennel looks good to him. This is him getting in his mountain kennel:

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t214/farwesttoller/?action=view&current=MOV00280.flv

 Quote:

I will say no more collar dragging if you can avoid it in any way - if you haeve to force him into the vehicle don't do it with your hand on the collar(use a leash), and don't "catch" him with your hands - use a leash out of sight of the car.

This is a conclusion I came to today. Though we work mostly off lead at work, I am going to have to leash him leaving the house and after comming down the mountain.