I was just wondering what everyone here is using for typical building search training progressions.
Usually, we use something like this:
1. Agitate and run off with a straight apprehension (helper in the open)
2. Agitate and run off, helper runs out of sight- but still in the open, still a straight app.
3. Agitate and run off- helper runs into a room, partially cracked open (teaching the alert)
4. Agitate and run off- closed doors
5. Helper out of sight- closed door- "audible" agitation after announcement.
6. closed door- no cues- "cold" search to alert
We start off green dogs like this, for the most part, with some twists and tweaks along the way. I was just curious if this is close to what most of you guys are doing.
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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Basically, that is what we do as well. I like to have a good foundation in outside airscenting problem (we call it scouting) before starting building search.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
I agree- it seems easier to start building searches after the dog understands scouts.
What type of "assistance" do you do when you run into problems at the above listed step #6? I am currently training a green pup that is having some issues in the "cold" search without the pre-agitation.
He will usually locate the helper, purge out on the door, stare at the door- and if nothing else happens (like encouragement from the handler or some sort of cue from the decoy)- he will leave it.
If I go back a step, he does fine. He seems proficient enough at the search and alert- as long as he is sure that there is someone in there, but when I do cold searches he just seems so unsure of his find.
David C.Frost Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2002
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Loc: Nashville, TN
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I have a pretty standard answer for anytime I run into a problem. I go back to the last part in training the dog was performing correctly and then move move forward at a slower pace.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again.
Matthew Grubb Webboard User Reg: 09-27-2002
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Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
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I went to a great seminar last year that advocated teaching the building search backwards, starting with the alert first…then progressing into teaching the search itself.
Michael West Webboard User Reg: 05-23-2007
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Loc: Washington, USA
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Quote: Matthew Grubb
I went to a great seminar last year that advocated teaching the building search backwards, starting with the alert first…then progressing into teaching the search itself.
Interesting... the more of the think about it thats not bad at all.
Howard Knauf Webboard User Reg: 09-24-2003
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Loc: Melbourne, Florida
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More than likely the dogs already knew how to speak on command. From there they probably used frustration to further their goal. Once the alert is established, they just worked the building search in reverse. Thats just my guess anyway.
The only problem that I can think they might encounter is how to teach the dog to hit door seams and what not in a pattern. When training the building search in the traditional manner the dog is taught to detail doors, or any access ways where a decoy's odor will emit from. Interesting angle though. Maybe Matt can indulge us in the particulars.
Matthew Grubb Webboard User Reg: 09-27-2002
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Loc: Pittsburgh, Pa.
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Basically they discussed teaching the alert first using a toy reward…. Using frustration to get the bark which gets rewarded with the release of the toy.
From there they talked about teaching the dog that the bark will open the closed door. They would see the man behind the door with their toy… door gets closed prior to dog’s getting to the man… frustration is again used to elicit a bark…. The bark opens the door and gains the reward.
Are we talking police service dogs here???
This is the second time under the heading of police dog training I am seeing the use of the toy in teaching a indication in building search today.
I won't say never but I do not usually do such things w. a PSD. The indication for a human needs to be born from the desire to fight. Can't be promoted well with a ball or anything seen as a toy.
Help me here because I am a bit concerned that the term bark and hold is misunderstood. It is not "barking indication" in the same fashion as a dog might sit, scratch or bark for detection find. It is a guard. Move and you get fought. Come out and I will fight with you. Calling to the handler that the dog has found an adversary. these must be the perceptions of the dog doing the B&H or Guard and bark, or Rever, or detaining, or whatever other term is being forwarded.
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