I was looking to see how many police depts use ecollars on patrol and allow them for certification. I know alot of people feel this means you have no control of your dog. THOUGHTS???

Are you saying people think if your using the e-collar that you have no control? That mostly sounds like ignorance.

The e-collar is simply another tool in the tool box.

 Quote: David_Stucenski

I know alot of people feel this means you have no control of your dog. THOUGHTS???

A lot of people don't have a clue. As long as they're not in charge of a K9 unit who cares what they think. IF they are in charge, they need to educate themselves.

To discover how many agencies certify with e-collars would be an exhausting research. I know of agencies that allow e-collars, and those that don't. Depends on who's writing the policy.

Howard

I think it is the opposite. You have more control of your dog. I know several national organizations won't allow them for their certifications. I feel they are behind the times.

I recently went to a national organizations qualifications and watched numerous dogs fail the call off portion. As this was occurring several handlers were mad, upset etc. One came back and snapped at 3 or 4 of us who were standing in the background and said we caused his dog not to call off as we were a distraction. What would happen if that were a real street situation.

If you work with a collar in the right way, by conditioning the dog to the collar prior to the start of the formal training, the control will be there even if the collar is not on.

It has been one of the best tools I have seen and our agency requires them and we will never train another dog without them.

Was wondering...

What models are generally prefered, and (maybe more important) avoided by your depts. for this trianing?

The Tri-Tronics G2 Pro 500 EXP is great, albiet expensive.

When we started using collars 11 years ago we had the Tri-Tronics 100 Lites. We then went with Dogtra Collars as they are more resonable in price and the rheostat dial is really easy to use.

We use a 1700 to train the dogs with as I like the digital read out on the transmiter. In the field our dogs wear the 200 NCP.

By the time the dog goes to the 200 they are fully conditioned to the collar and need only very low levels of stimulation if any at all to perform.

 Quote: steven noonan

I think it is the opposite. You have more control of your dog. I know several national organizations won't allow them for their certifications. I feel they are behind the times.

I recently went to a national organizations qualifications and watched numerous dogs fail the call off portion. As this was occurring several handlers were mad, upset etc. One came back and snapped at 3 or 4 of us who were standing in the background and said we caused his dog not to call off as we were a distraction. What would happen if that were a real street situation.

If you work with a collar in the right way, by conditioning the dog to the collar prior to the start of the formal training, the control will be there even if the collar is not on.

It has been one of the best tools I have seen and our agency requires them and we will never train another dog without them.

I went to the IPWDA national workshop this past October and they will not allow ecollars for certification. All I can say that I was doing a off lead area search for an armed subject at about 0300 and a home owner came out screaming waving a shovel in his hands to get out of his yard. I tried to make annoucements and he didn't believe them. "I don't give a S&*^% about your K9 I have two dogs here." That grabbed my K9's attention and he gave that I am going to get him look from about 50 feet away. With the ecollar I was able to control him and bring him to a heel until the home owner could be "educated."

The use of e=collars were demonized due to the fact that in sport dog circles in Europe they had been against the rules. There are also specific animals rights laws pertaining to the use of electrical training devises in many areas.
So, we had these high powered dogs coming over from Europe and figured we would look to the people training police dogs and sport dogs there for answers. Though in "back door" use in Europe at the time they were frowned upon. Yet, through new developments, education, and yes, litigation the e-collar is less frowned upon now.
Couple that with the initial uses of the e-collars here being trashbreaking (make the none game species burn) for hounds and the early e-collars being very simple remote cattle prods w/ poor reliability and you have some real negative exposure to the equipment.
In the last 25 years the e-collar has become a much more refined tool. Research has shown them safe.
Today they are rapidly becoming an industry standard and have allowed law enforcement to conduct much more realistic training. Scenario based training has become the buzz word in police circles and we can now extend our training of police dogs into such handler training without compromising the safety standards all handlers should adhere to.
The fact that we no longer have to be physically attached to our dogs to perform compulsive based training and that we are able to use mild correction in those scenarios to maintain our work is a boon to K-9 handlers.
Should they be allowed to be used in certification??? If they are utilzed correctly in training the dog by the time the dog is ready to certify you can the damned thing off if you like!!!
For street work I would say that the dog should wear the e-collar as part of its uniform. The dog goes to work and so does the collar. This provides continuity between street and training.
If you haven't had education in the collars use, or have learned to use it purely as a bigger stick then forget the thing all together.