I have tried to research my question, so please forgive me if I have missed this information somewhere. I have a soon to be 7 month old half Dachshund / half Bichon Frise' puppy I have started to obediance train him. I have seen Puppies 8 weeks to 8 months, and Basic Dog Obedience. I have listened to all of Ed's podcasts, and read many of his Ebooks. I believe I have effectively assumed the role of the pack leader. Lance really seems to respect me. Prior to this month, I had only taught him sit, down, come, and a little place command work. It is amazing to me how much he has learned since then. He is responding very well to training. Although he minds me most of the time, there are times when he doesn't. I have only started to issue corrections recently, as he has crossed the 6th month milestone. My problem is that when I correct him, even at the highest level I am comfortable with, he looks at me as if to say, "Is that the best you can do?" Based on Ed's descriptions of a hard vs soft dog, I'd consider him a rock. At no time has he not taken a treat, or quit playing with a toy after a correction. I actually laughed out loud while watching the section in the obedience video about prong collars for small dogs, because Ed was describing Lance exactly. I recently purchased a prong collar which I will begin to train him with soon. I'm working on desensitizing him to it now. I have already run into situations at this early stage where I think Lance is a perfect candidate for an E collar. Please understand I don't intend to use and E collar on him at this age, I am trying to do my homework early. I know Ed recommends the Dogtra 1700. Is this model safe for a small dog? I would guess he isn't going to be much over 15 LBS fully grown. Many of the E collars say not to use for dogs under 12 LBS. I am concerned about two things. I'd like a collar designed for a small dog, with a physically small receiver. Also, I want to make sure it is designed for a dog with Lances disposition. I am impressed with the Dogtra line, but not sure which model is appropriate. Any advice is appreciated.

Hi Jason;
I would recommend the Dogtra 200. The unit is a little heavy for
a small dog but with the reastat, we can "fine tune" the working level for even the smallest of dogs. I have found the general working level, under minimal distraction to be 18-21 for most dogs. I have suggested to Dogtra that we really need a small collar for these little guys. They deserve great training too.
The collar can be used for teaching as well as stopping unwanted behavior. When you are "correcting" the dog, could he be confused as to what the correction means instead of asking you
"if that's all you got"? Some dogs actually freeze when they are confused.............I don't believe corrections belong in the teaching phase. Are you sure he completely understands what you are asking him? Just a thought........

Roni

Roni,
You are correct, based on Ed's advice, you shouldn't correct until you are 100% sure he knows the command. Lance has been trained sit come and down starting at 8 weeks. I rarely correct him for these commands, because in general he minds me for them. I have recently started him on sit stays and down stays, and he will break them with a high enough distraction. I do however, correct for pulling the leash while walking (by popping the leash as Ed directs), and also for jumping on friends and relatives, and other pack behavior problems. Keep in mind I just recently got a prong collar, and I believe this is going to solve the majority of my problems. I am interested in the E Collar primairly for off leash work. Thanks very much for your reply. I'll look forward to other's opinions also, and I will check out the Dogtra 200.

The Dogtra 200 is 5.9 oz. So, you will have about 2.5% of it's bodyweight hanging off of the neck...Does anyone who knows about this stuff forsee that being too much?

Jason, I would refrain from leash collar corrections with a dog of this size as spine damage can occur. Changing direction with rewards when the dog "comes with" can be very successful and makes more sense to the dog.
Rick, you make a valid point here. I wouldn't suggest using any e collar at this point until the dog reaches 10 to 12 lbs. The structure of a dog does affect balance so the longer bodied dogs can handle more weight at the neck. Common sense is necessary in all dog training, and we must always put the welfare of the dog both physically and emotionally first. We are really hoping Dogtra will put energies into manufacturing a weight based unit for our small dogs.

i hope so too-cause i have a chihuahua that's hurtin' for a zapin'.
or-someone should invent a micro-prong harness-so i can correct without worrying about collapsed traechea....


as long as the box isn't too big-you can pop extra holes to make the collar fit-or get the smaller cinch-it.

Roni,
Please understand, Lance was over 10 lbs in mid December. I never gave him a leash correction until mid January. I am guessing he is between 12 and 15 lbs now, as he has certainly grown since then. My point is this. I am a large man, I in no way want to cause physical damage to my dog. However, Lance is a hard dog. Flat collar corrections do not affect him, this is why I went to the prong collar, following Ed's advice on the obedience video. I have not yet used the prong. I received it yesterday, from Leerburg. I have started to desensitize him to it, and plan on starting to use it soon. I understand Ricks point, which was really part of my question to begin with about the weight of the reciever. I very much appreciate your input. Thanks for responding!

Jason, just more input on the corrections that you might want to read, Brad Martin's post on this thread: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=179267#Post179267

In training I feel it's important to keep in mind what Brad said in that thread.

In my experience, people get in a big rush to start giving corrections. many times the dog really doesn't have a clear understanding of the command, and like Brad points out hasn't learned to generalize.

If you think your dog really understands the word "sit" for example, try this.

Sit in a chair with your back to the dog and ask for a sit, lay on the couch and ask for a sit, do jumping jacks and ask for a sit, stand on a step ladder and ask for a sit, you get the idea.... if your dog truly is past the learning phase your dog will sit because he understands the meaning of the word. A large majority of dogs know specific words in a specific context... like sitting for their food bowl. Correcting dogs before they REALLY understand is unfair, IMO.

something to think about.

I have been a little slow in introducing Roni Hoff as a new moderator on remote collar questions.

Besides being a doog friend of Cindy and myself (for many many years) Roni is an outstanding dog trainer. She has trained and titled a number of Schutzhund dogs. She has taken dogs she has trained to the Schutzhund Nationals a number of times - so many times I cant remember the exact number right now. She has also trained dogs for clients who have then taken their dogs to confirmation titles.

Ronni also owns her own dog training center in Elkhart Indiana and when people contact me and ask where to go to school to learn about remote collar training I always recommend that they go to Roni.

Two days ago I added a number of new forums on remote collars. Roni is the moderator for those forums. So I suggest that people listen to what she has to say because she has a lot to offer - not only on dog training but on remote collar work