I received the DVD on Establishing Pack Structure today and sat down to watch the whole thing - so much information.
Anyway I was wondering if it's possible to be seen by your pup as the pack leader in some areas but not in others?

For example Max is very good on walks, he listens and does what we ask him almost immediately and almost always the first time. But at other times he ignores commands he knows, he bites, runs away and deliberately (or at least it seems) bites the couch and the cushions in an attempt to get his own way.
So could he be thinking walk = mum and dad pack leaders, other times not so much?

Or could it just be that he has learnt that certain behaviour at particular times will get him what he wants and it just happens that sometimes it's good/respectful behaviour?

It is DEFINITELY the case that a dog will consider itself different ranks within the pack in new situations. If you handle a dog correctly at home but give it free reign on a walk you're sending very mixed signals, and the dog will assume that it needs to be in charge (well...SOMEONE has to be!) So yeah. This can certainly be the case. One thing that's easy to do in the home to improve the dogs understanding of you as pack leader, aside from NILIF and everything else in that DVD, is enforcing a certain position.

For 30 minutes a day (while watching Dog Whisperer perhaps?) Put your dog into a Down next to you. don't say anything, don't issue a command, just move him into a down. When he gets up, put him back. You're not being forceful and you're not correcting, you're just showing him that you can control his posture. At the end of the 30 minutes, give your release word.

After a week of this, move further (2 feet) from your dog. (A long line will be necessary). Progressively increase the distance. This isn't a obedience training. Once the dog gets that they can't MOVE unless you say it's ok, pack structure tends to become more clear for them. Using this technique in conjunction with the things in Ed's dvd has worked for me, and for my dogs. Your mileage may vary.

Lastly, I want to caution you about the way you think about your dogs behavior.

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deliberately (or at least it seems) bites the couch and the cushions in an attempt to get his own way.

Dogs do not have higher reasoning. Attributing higher reasoning to your dog will frustrate you and hurt your relationship with your dog. It's a constant struggle for me not to do this, as I'm sure it is for others.

If he is biting on the couch, it's probably because the couch feels good. How old is he? Does he have good chew toys?

If it's not just a teething thing, it may be because he sees it as a game. He bites the couch, you flip out, but not in a way that he perceives as serious. "To get them to chase me, I just have to bite this." All dogs love to play chase!

Analyze what he's doing, and what your reaction is to him doing it. How did you train him that it was rewarding to bite the couch?

-David

 Quote: David Eagle

For 30 minutes a day (while watching Dog Whisperer perhaps?) Put your dog into a Down next to you. don't say anything, don't issue a command, just move him into a down. When he gets up, put him back. You're not being forceful and you're not correcting, you're just showing him that you can control his posture. At the end of the 30 minutes, give your release word.

-David

David, I love this suggestion and will start implementing this into our daily routine. We've been working on the long down with success (w/ positive reinforcement-food reward), but I like the idea of putting her in a down w/ no command to reinforce the pack leader position. Do you think this will confuse her since we are working on the long down as well?

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just move him into a down. When he gets up, put him back. You're not being forceful and you're not correcting, you're just showing him that you can control his posture.

This is a bit of a loose statement. If a dog is put into a position and moves from that position, when the handler replaces the dog the dog's behavior is being corrected. Sure maybe the handler is not administering a leash correction but the activity of the dog is being actively modified, to me this constitutes a correction. Also, to not say you are being forceful in this situation i think could be inaccurate. In this description the dog is being forced to lie back down. What if a strong willed dog decides to resist? Does the handler let the dog win and give up, no you have to follow through, so the dog is forced to comply in this case. The degree of force will vary from dog to dog, sure, but pushing a dog to the floor is a compulsive activity.

I agree that this, as it is described, would not be OB training to say that this activity will make pack structure clear for the dog will prove to be false, unless the remainder of the relationship is also stable. If there is an improper human to dog pack dynamic, exercises like this could prove hazardous when the puppy grows into an adult. The Dog Whisperer has got some skills, there's no doubt, but even he talks about leadership being an attitude more than anything else.

It's too late for me to edit... I'd really like to hear the thoughts of others on this topic; particularly whether or not others feel if a dog's rank can/does fluctuate.

I also recently purchased and have been implementing the tools in the pack structure DVD. Ed Frawley often makes a point that dogs live in the "here and now" and that things are "black and white". My interpretation is that you either are the pack leader or you are not. There is no gray area and from what I have personally seen this is very true.

Shannon

I have to agree with that point of view. I ask the question because I personally have not owned many dogs but have worked with many many of them in several different aspects of training. The problem is that the settings are very static. I observe the dogs in the training hall, or on the training field, etc. The only dogs I have observed in more than one setting have been my own.

It is my reasoning that the will of the dog (or lack there of) is what drives them to perform a function. Be it domination in certain instances, to bite a helper while working in defense, or just to learn the basic down for a treat; the dog's will is its desire to succeed. I agree that either the dog views itself as the leader or it does not. In cases where the dog seems to be more dominant than others, I feel, are cases where the dogs desire to express his will in a leadership role is stronger and more previlant. That these dogs do not want to be the boss but in certain cases, like in a park instead of the owner's home, would prefer to be and therefore they push the boundary. What are others' thoughts on this?

I don't feel like it's so black and white with me, but this is my first dog with any dominance issues and it could be my lack of experience.
For example, my 8 month old pup is calm in her crate, sits before every meal, and allows me to pet her while she's eating. Sits before going through doors and when coming inside, when I ask her to.
But, I have to trade her (which in my opinion is a bribe) to out a high value item like a chew. I feel that this is a pack leadership issue, and to me it seems as though she is accepting of my leadership in certain situations, and not so accepting in other situations.
Or am i reading this wrong?

 Quote: lynne barrows

But, I have to trade her (which in my opinion is a bribe) to out a high value item like a chew. I feel that this is a pack leadership issue, and to me it seems as though she is accepting of my leadership in certain situations, and not so accepting in other situations.
Or am i reading this wrong?

I would not consider it a bribe since she is still a pup and you need to teach her the desired behavior of the "out".

Once the behavior is learned and you know the dog "knows" what you want, then I would consider it to be a challenge to your leadership.

Thanks for the replies everyone, from what you've said I'm not so sure it's about leadership with Max. He is only 7 months old and still thinks everything is invitation to play.

I suspect we haven't been consistent enough in teaching what the rules are in some situations. We have been very consistent on the walk and when he gets fed (for example) so he knows exactly what we expect. But other times - the times he bites the couch - we haven't been clear.

David thank you for your suggestions about putting him in a down, I think I will store that away for later though. As he is still so young we haven't been doing much duration for his down yet (we are just starting this now) so I imagine it would very confusing for him. Not to mention a struggle for us to keep him there, we would be telling him every 10 seconds to go back to his down.