I'm re-watching 8 weeks and during the toy section of the video,scrolled across the screen, it says, "no tug games for pets." What does that exactly mean? Our dog will only be a pet but I was going to get the puppy tug, should I not get it then? When Ed is playing with the pup and the toys it looks to me that he's playing a "tug game" with the pup. Is that a tug game or just typical play with the pup and what is the difference? Thanks for answering my questions. I'm about preparation and learning and that's what this forum and Ed's videos have helped me with.

Ed says that tug games are okay, but only if you are going to train your dog. This does not mean half way training a dog to obey a command only when they feel like it, or even only sometimes when they feel like it. It means being a pack leader 100% of the time and expecting compliance 100% of the time once a command has been learned well. As far as Ed playing tug, Ed trains and breeds working dogs. Rearing up a working puppy is a little different than raising the average pet.

So, Matthew you are saying that if we plan on doing obedience training and sticking to our guns it's okay to play tug games with the pup? My family and I are beginners in this but we are determined to do our best. Since we are beginners should we not incorporate tug games? And if not what games should we play with the puppy?

I can only speak to my experience. I have a West German highline dog bred for sport, with titled parents. He could be trained for sport, but he is not a high drive working dog. I did not play tug with him when he was very young, as he was a pet, but did teach obedience, as I had no interest in having a 95 pound untrained dog. Once he was about a year old, I started to play tug, and build drive. Now he loves tug, fetch, building drive, and is still easy to handle. He would much rather have a ball in his mouth then a treat. I use the ball to enforce obedience. This has worked for me. I don't know whsat kind of dog you have, or what kind of pack structure you want to maintain.

I don't have a puppy yet just doing the research. It will only be a family pet. I was trying to understand what tug games are because in the video he says to redirect the puppy when it's biting to a toy and let him bite and play with that and I didn't know if that was considered a tug game or not.

Maisha, a big purpose of playing tug with a working puppy/dog is letting him win the tug to build drive and confidence (for bitework). It's the beginning of teaching a pup to bite if you're going to do Schutzhund or another similar sport. It consists of moving the tug around, letting the puppy bite it, playing tug with the puppy for a few seconds, he gets all excited and drivey, you let go of the tug so he wins it and he gets a thrill out of having taken it (won it) from your hands.

With a pet it's different. You can buy the tug and use it as a reward for later obedience, but if your dog is going to be a pet, I wouldn't play tug in order to let him win it.

It will depend on the drive of your puppy, but if you get a high drive puppy, he will already be giving you a run for your money. You can use the high drive of a puppy or dog to teach obedience. High food drive makes a dog easy to train because the food is a high motivator. High prey drive can also be used to train, if you find the puppy loves a particular item, like the tug or a ball, etc.

Starting training is easier done with food because you can keep the treats coming, whereas using a toy item interrupts the training as the dog will want to play with whatever toy you just gave him.

Anyway, back to playing tug with a pet dog, I wouldn't do it, especially not with a high drive GSD puppy. You may be borrowing problems you don't want to have in a pet. A high drive GSD is a challenge as it is and he/she will need a job as he grows in order to release some of that drive. But if you're not going into a sport that requires protection/bite training, I wouldn't play tug. My opinion.

Thanks for the advice Sandy. It really makes things clear for me. In the 8 weeks video Ed talks about redirecting the puppy from biting you to a toy. What toy would you recommend to redirect the puppy from biting you that wouldn't increase he's prey drive?

 Quote: Sandy Moore

Anyway, back to playing tug with a pet dog, I wouldn't do it, especially not with a high drive GSD puppy. You may be borrowing problems you don't want to have in a pet. A high drive GSD is a challenge as it is and he/she will need a job as he grows in order to release some of that drive. But if you're not going into a sport that requires protection/bite training, I wouldn't play tug. My opinion.

I just want to back up Sandy's excellent advice w/ my own experience (having a family pet only)
I did play tug w/ my pup and found that when she hit 6 months her prey drive was too much for me to handle. I stopped playing tug at that point and have been focusing on obedience and pack structure. (she's 8 months old now and weighs in at about 70 lbs...she's a bullmastiff mix)

If I had it to do over again, I would not have played tug games w/ her and instead would have focused on games like fetch. I was definately not ready for the surge in prey drive, and I sported some lovely bruises up and down both arms for awhile until I got my act together!

 Quote: maisha butler

Thanks for the advice Sandy. It really makes things clear for me. In the 8 weeks video Ed talks about redirecting the puppy from biting you to a toy. What toy would you recommend to redirect the puppy from biting you that wouldn't increase he's prey drive?

It doesn't matter which toy it is, it's what you do with it that matters. You'll start getting a feel for which toy the puppy likes best - that's the one I would use for redirecting. Those soft squeaky toys are useful, since the noise gets their attention (away from biting you and to the toy).

I wouldn't play tug with it to redirect however; if he's biting you I would squeak it to get his attention, then give it or throw it for the pup to chase it. Of course make sure he sees it in your hand and sees you throw it, and throw it low to the ground. Very young puppies don't focus on something being thrown up high and far away. This will ignite some prey drive (chasing it) but nothing is perfect. At least what prey drive he has will be redirected at an object instead of you. Even if you just bounce it on the ground in front of him, that brings on prey drive. Keep in mind however that if he's biting on you a lot and getting all squirrelly doing it, he's already in prey drive. If throwing it makes you uncomfortable (gauge your pup's reaction to YOU after you throw it), then just tell him "no" for biting you and hand him the toy, tell him "yes" when he takes it.

That being said, don't expect the redirect to be a magic trick . It doesn't always work and when it does, it's temporary at best and of course you'll have to do it over and over and over, which is normal. Don't be ashamed if you have to buy gloves

When you're researching for the pup you're going to buy, keep the words "high drive" in mind; you may not want a GSD with tons of drive if you want him as a pet. Ask lots of questions on this forum before you get your puppy. It's important you know what to expect with different levels of drives in puppies. It's also important you get a good idea of what a dominant dog acts like; you may not want one of those for a pet either. If you want a pup that will be able to calm and settle nicely and lay at your feet, not pacing back and forth because his energy is through the roof before he's 2 or 3 or 5 years old , you need to keep these things in mind.

Case in point, my GSD is high drive and he's bugging me to play and walking back and forth as I'm typing this - and he's already 19 months old, and not at all ready to be calm. There have been fleeting moments of calmness, but they're fleeting. He always needs to be doing SOMETHING. sigh....

So after getting info under your belt about drives and dominance and temperament, decide what you want in your pup/dog and look for one that seems to fit your life (and you).

I have always heard people reccomend against playing tug, saying it would make the dog more aggressive...of course, I have heard the same things about raw diet! Oh, the uncontrollable bloodlust!

So, what are the ill-effects of playing tug with a pet?