In the article "Terms Used In Protection Training", Ed says:

 Quote:

..dogs that become so focused on their prey item (either the sleeve or the suite) that they zone out during the work and develop almost fanatical intensity towards their prey.

Once a dog is locked in prey the handler has a difficult situation on his hands. What he has actually done (by mistake) is raise the threshold to defense to a point where its almost impossible to add defense. The dog has become progressively more and more independent and is harder to control. It becomes a dog that will take a great deal of abuse from a decoy by developing a mind set that "I can take anything you can give me because I know that if I do I will get my prey in the end."

What he doesn't talk about is, how to avoid this condition. We're in the "building drive" portion of "building drive and focus" -- just starting on the "focus". Her drive is nicely intense, not frenetic (10mo old female GSD, german working / show lines), she locks onto her prey item and engages in a split second, if I put it behind my back she paces back and forth, trying to peak around either side of my body.

Anyway, I'm pleased with where her prey drive is at, and I want to continue to build it, but I don't want to risk getting her Locked in Prey, and I was wondering if there were any warning signs, or anything I should be doing to prevent it. Thoughts?

I am *guessing* to avoid having dog locked in prey, it's critical that the dog's focus be on you. Do you have a watch me command?

I've been doing this with my pup. Putting dog in platz, then giving watch me command, then flailing his toy around his head, his back, my back, throwing it across the room. His job is to stay down and focused on me, not the toy.

He *knows* he's going to get that toy upon my release, but until then, his self control is a must! It's really great to see a dog learn such incredible self control. The toy is a tool, not THE game. THe game is interaction with you.

It's important to start small, set the dog up for success. Reward with toy when focus is on you...then build up. (ie: throwing across field)

Does that make sense?

It might be helpful for this discussion if we defined terms. Please the following, in quotes, from Helmut Raiser who is recognized today as the best trainer of schutzhund in the world and his view on which drives are useful during protection training. The below was only a small part from his book "Der Schutzhund" translated by Armin Winkler. IMO Prey-drive shows itself and can be used successfully in all facets of training from when the dog is a pup to an adult. Defense on the other hand only becomes useful in the dogs training when the dog is completely mentally matured even though it may evidence itself in some degree before that time. This time frame for using defense is different, for different breeds and different for dogs within that breed. Now to the article with the preface by Armin Winkler


"Prey-drive, defense-drive, fighting-drive, etc. are the catch phrases of modern protection training. They are thrown around at every seminar we attend, they are the subjects of countless articles, but rarely do people agree on what is being said about these "drives." About 20 years ago Helmut Raiser revolutionized Schutzhund protection training by identifying which inborn motivations (drives) are stimulated in the different phases of training. He did not just assign specific names to these motivations, he combined years of practical experience and research with the clinical studies and their results of such behaviourial giants like Brunner, Hediger, Lorenz, Most, and Trummler among others, to determine on a scientific level what drives are and how they fit into protection training. Without any further introduction, let me summarize his findings from his now famous book Der Schutzhund.

Prey Drive

Prey drive is part of a dog's food gathering behaviour. In a predatory animal that means prey drive governs hunting and killing techniques. Chasing, flushing, pouncing, biting, and shaking-to-death, are the most important of these techniques when we are talking about protection training. In order to stimulate these instinctive techniques in the dog, we have to keep in mind what a real prey animal does when it is hunted. Prey is always on the move, it always moves in an evasive fashion, and it is panic-stricken. These behaviours in turn trigger pursuit, pouncing, biting, pulling, and shaking-to-death in the dog. Prey drive is inborn, and is a trainable instinct, meaning it can be enhanced or reduced. Prey drive can be exhausted, meaning that a time will come when the dog "doesn't feel like performing the desired behaviours any more." Author's note: Considering the serious effects the end result of this drive would have on a prey animal, I do not subscribe to the idea that prey work is only a silly game.

Defense Drive

Defense drive counts as one of the dog's aggression behaviours, and it can appear in conjunction with other behaviours. Threatening, staring, and biting are typical defensive reactions. Defense behaviour is generally triggered by threats, real or perceived, or open aggression. The goal of defense behaviour is always to create avoidance behaviour in the threatener. Defense drive may appear as defense of prey, defense of puppies, defense of territory, defense against the unfamiliar, or self-defense. The drive is satisfied in each case when the aggressor shows avoidance behaviour. Defense drive is not subject to exhaustion, so it can be activated at will. It should, therefore, be part of the combative behaviour of any protection dog. Furthermore, it is responsible for behaviours like countering when under stress or when threatened. The great danger when working a dog in defense drive is that the same stimuli which cause defense behaviour also cause avoidance behaviour. Which of the two possible behaviours is displayed by a dog when a trigger stimulus is presented is dependant on a variety of factors, among them confidence and temperament of the dog as well as the threatener, "life" experiences of the dog, age and maturity of the dog, location (unfamiliar or home turf), distance between adversaries, and the presence of other external influences (prey, mate, puppies). Author's note: Hopefully this allows people to see defense for the double-edged sword it is. Defense is one part of protection training. The idea that good dogs should only be worked in defense is a dangerous one which has wrecked many great dogs".

Thanks Norman. That's good info. It goes right along with the articles that Ed has on the above subjects.

My question was more specifically targetted at avoiding the condition that he describes above, being "Locked in Prey", where a dog is so fixated on it's prey item that the helper has difficulty getting it into Defense.

 Quote: david eagle

My question was more specifically targetted at avoiding the condition that he describes above, being "Locked in Prey", where a dog is so fixated on it's prey item that the helper has difficulty getting it into Defense.

Isn't this then a focus issue, ie: turning the dog "on" and "off"?

 Quote: David Eagle

if I put it behind my back she paces back and forth, trying to peak around either side of my body.

Anyway, I'm pleased with where her prey drive is at, and I want to continue to build it, but I don't want to risk getting her Locked in Prey, and I was wondering if there were any warning signs, or anything I should be doing to prevent it. Thoughts?

This is what I was responding to...I did not understand from your opening post that you were wondering about changing into defense when on the *helper*.

Michele: I get the impression, from the definition that Ed gives above, specifically of a dog that's "Willing to put up with all kinds of abuse because it knows eventually it'll get its prey", that it might be a little more complicated than that...

Also, I don't see "Focus" in prey as turning the dog 'off', which I think is why I don't see that as a solution for getting "locked in prey"...you've taught the dog that it must be intently focused on you to get its prey item, but the thing that drives that focus is the intensity of its desire for the prey. That's what makes "Drive and Focus" so powerful, channeling that prey drive into focused obedience.

I dunno. You could be dead on, and I could just be thinking about it wrong. That's what I'm trying to figure out. What do you think?

 Quote: Michele McAtee

This is what I was responding to...I did not understand from your opening post that you were wondering about changing into defense when on the *helper*.

Ahh, I should have made that more clear. Yeah, you're absolutely right, that paragraph IS 100% about focus. We've been doing predominantly drive building, so we're just starting to work on the Focus portion.

David as you know no dog comes balanced, it is up to you and the helper to decide if a particular drive is severely out of balance and then decide on a plan in a effort to bring the dog more into balance. Then, once achieved work to see that balance, such as it is, is maintained. That said in protection you can't IMO *fix* a dog by bringing it more into balance state of mind until that dog is able to call upon its defense drive which won't be available to the dog until it is mentally mature. Just my opinion. Norman Epstein

That's definitely a valid point. Thanks, Norman.