I have a GSD he's pretty good he knows sit, down, and come. Come really well! So, he's pretty smart. These are the only commands we work on right now. When we walk and he walks correctly I praise him and give him a treat. But for the most part he isn't a pleasant walking buddy. He walks behind me while we go from the house, then when we turn around to go back he looks like he's competing in World's Strongest Man pulling a railroad car. It's also to the point where he can drag my wife around, so she doesn't look foward to taking him out to potty, or anything else. Pulling is really the only dominant action he shows now. I just ordered a Ed's Basic Obedience DVD, and a prong. I have no intentions of using the prong at his age other than for walking and until I watch the video. Would this be OK?

I think walks should be kept to a minimum for a pup that age. Still, it's not too early to teach it to be nice on leash. I would use a flat collar or even a martingale collar before a prong. Ed will show you in the vid how to teach leash manners on a flat, buckle collar. I'd put the prong away for another 6 mos.

Have you considered a martingale collar? It only closes enough to prevent the dog from wriggling it's head out and avoiding you.

I have not watched Ed's DVD on this so it's cool you're checking that out! Whenever I get a 2nd dog I will probably be gtting some of those.

What we did is use clicker/food. I kept the food at my leg and the dog learned that was the 'sweet spot.' This was great at home and in docile situation but it all went out the window once something else got her attention. Postive only doesn't alway work!

I had to resort to a prong (over a year old), and also invading her space. She races forward I step to the side in front of her and walk in her space. Example: hard left/about face and 2 or 3 steps back the way you came. This forced her to move to the side or walk backwards. After a week or so of this she learned that it was not going to be tolerated. She was about a year old when I started that so I don't know whether that should be done on a pup. What's nice now is if she starts getting ahead of me I just walk heavy on my left foot (stomp, walk stomp walk) and she immediately remembers her manners. No jerking required.

btw: also, we taught her to DOWN before the door was opened from inside. We'd crowd her if she tried to go thru the door first. Don't EVER allow that. And she has to SIT before I bring her in the house and she has to let me through first.

I used the prong on my GSD at around five and a half months, I think it was. It was beyond my strength to control him when he pulled, even at that age and it made socializing him a nightmare.

I didn't correct him; I let him self-correct with the prong and had no negative consequences at all. It was highly effective, he still enjoyed his walks a lot, and still has a positive association with the prong. I emphasize that I did not snap the leash...I did NOT correct him. He just let off on the arm-wrenching pulling while we were working on the socializing walks.

Used incorrectly, a prong at any age can be harmful. I think the guidelines for when you start using a prong are just that...guidelines. Depends on the breed, the individual dog's temperament and strength, etc. It's not advice I would hand out as a general rule, but I don't think that 5 months old is excessively young if the pulling is as bad as you describe.

Watch the video and see what you think.

The prong is no substitute for what you're already doing...encouraging and rewarding correct behavior, but I think using the prong on walks would be fine too, based on how you described your dog, your situation and your obvious awareness of possible issues.

Good luck!

Chris,
To me there's something wrong with this picture. The dog would prefer to walk behind you on the way from the house but pulls when going back to the house? I have that right? If I've got it the proper way round it says, to me at least, the dog doesn't want to be out in the big wide open smelly noisy all kinds of new stuff world.
So off the top I'd want to immediately start socializing him more. Because all the young dogs I ever had pulled what ever direction we're headed. Pulling here, pulling there, no no thats better up ahead, ugh impossible to keep them centered.
No prongs...... Socialization for now.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

I agree, sounds like he doesn't want to walk at all. You'll need to address this first. My 5 month old pulls in the direction I'm going. I posted a thread about this in the puppy forum about a week ago and got some good suggestions. Some might work for you as well.

 Quote: randy allen

Chris,
To me there's something wrong with this picture. The dog would prefer to walk behind you on the way from the house but pulls when going back to the house? I have that right? If I've got it the proper way round it says, to me at least, the dog doesn't want to be out in the big wide open smelly noisy all kinds of new stuff world.
So off the top I'd want to immediately start socializing him more. Because all the young dogs I ever had pulled what ever direction we're headed. Pulling here, pulling there, no no thats better up ahead, ugh impossible to keep them centered.
No prongs...... Socialization for now.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

He seems to like walks pretty good. He's never shown signs that would lead me to think otherwise. We are bonded well, when he's off the leash outdoors he's never more than 20 ft or so away. We live in the country, so there is not a lot of noises other than an occasional car. He was socialized a lot from 8-12 weeks, and is still socailized. He goes to work with me some, we have a lot house guest, and we
go to the park as well for a change of scenery. It's like when we turn around he knows where we're going so he wants to lead the way.

Chris, try going home in a more circular route. Like not covering the same ground. That way he won't know home is the next stop. Try making the walks oh hum what a nice day kind of affair. If he starts pulling toward home, just stop going in that direction, oh hum what a nice day lets walk.
What happens when you get home? Food? Play? Sleep? What.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

It's the walking behind I picked up on.

Edited by randy allen (02/26/2008 05:36 PM)
Edit reason: add thought

My personal method for pups that pull is quite simple I don't use a prong on a young dog unless there are other issues. I use a flat collar.

Puppy pulls. I stop. If I have to, I sit down. Generally when the pup is not getting anywhere they will look back or come to you, if you sit most pups will come to you. Sitting I reserve for really determined future weight pull champs. Trees are also great things to use. Stand on the opposite side of the tree with the leash across the back of the tree and you beside or in front of the tree, puppy pulls on opposite side and you now have a tree to back you up that reduces the amount of pull you feel. I like smaller trees about 6" across or so that I can actually wrap the leash around and then I don't feel on iota of the pulling.

Puppy pulls to get somewhere - self rewarding. The reward is forward motion, puppy pulls to continue and maintain forward motion. Prevent the puppy from moving forward while pulling you prevent the reward. Now enter treats for not pulling/correct possition. You just made your reward the only reward.

This is something I do not when on an actual walk. This is something I work on separately with the pup on a leash or long line near home where all I am doing is working on eliminating he pulling.

I also find that pups who are religiously tethered have much less inclination to pull on a walk.

.02 cents

Personally, I would get more excited to leave for the walk and encourage him to move out and explore rather than staying behind....and I agree with Randy as far as the way home....when he pulls, go a different direction, give him a treat for following you.
When he anticipates your going home and you know he is going to pull, change it up. Stop and do some fun food reward stuff. Play ball with him....anything to kkeep his little mind guessing what YOU are going to do next rather than thinking about weight pulling you home.
Also, if you have more than two entrances to the house....change that up to so he is not "conditioned to going to one door and sitting while you go in or go out first, get him used to sitting and waiting at all the doors. (even the indoor rooms too, it's great practice)