Al Curow and I had a few e-mails about the bite strength of dogs which piqued my curiosity. Just a few questions for those of you who train dogs for bite work that may help me re-research this topic.

When your dogs are attacking the bite sleeve are they biting at maximum bite force right away?
Do they or can they increase bite force if necessary (decoy starts moving, etc.)?
Which do you think would have the most downward pressure, the canine teeth (front of the mouth) or the incisors (back of the mouth)?

FYI...Al has it at 250psi for a Rottie (source Discovery Channel) and I had it at 600psi for a GSD (source 2005 Royal Society study measuring Canis Lupus (wolf) at 593). Al is probably right at 250psi, but I am now curious just how hard bite dogs... bite.

Thanks.

Here is a link to a Wolf bite being measured. This is a Wolf that was raised in captivity, and as such, not afraid of humans. It is not biting as hard as a Wolf in the wild, but, hard none the less!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwB2Lzkacps

Molars/back of the mouth exert more pressure and force than the canines. Bite force studies don't impress me or effect me much as I highly doubt they can get an animal to the point where it bites at maximum ability consistently and correctly on the equipment. I've seen a few specials on bite force on the discovery and NGC and they tested dog breeds, wolves, big cats, gators, hyenas etc and they all got different numbers.

The more telling experiments are the ones that observe the eating habits of the animals, mostly the process of sheering meat and bone/crunching etc. Studying the amount of pressure it takes to enable an animal to crack a certain type of fresh bone or frozen carcass or a coconut or whatever is more interesting, for me.

I don't care what the number is that a dog packs in its mouth, I don't need to know that an adult male corgi can bite with the force of 321 pounds per square inch, I'm not planning on sticking my hand in there so it doesn't matter Some dogs bite harder than others, could be the same breed, age, size, gender. Some dogs bite harder one day than the next.

All I'm concerned with is making sure that my fingers, feet, and face are not involved.

Training/working goes as such for me: Sleeve/Suit ---> Mouth. Good day.

Bare Arm/hand/leg ----> Mouth. Bad day.

Hmmm...I never seen or heard of a GSD or Shepherd type bite harder than a Rott. Not saying they don't bite hard, believe me, I know they do (I decoy at our club).

There is another Nat'l G, study where they used a Dutch Shepherd, Mal, AB, & Mastiff. The Shepherds ranked lowest as far as bite pressure with the highest being the Mastiff. Something to do with size of head. Then, they also show a Dier Wolf. This is the link I believe. Link.

I would think that use of the muscles plays a part as well, no? say a dog that is used to biting (the sleeve, hopefully) and has lots of excersise for his jaw muscles could exert much more force than not. In that light it seems like we'll never know who has the most impressive bite.
And of course strucutre plays a huge role. Cats mouths are used for gripping and crushing moreso than the dogs which is more slashing, tearing and sawing. (generaly..i mean now we have dogs like the bull terrier or mastiff who have more of a cat shaped face.)

besides, like a snake bite, the dog may exert more pressure at some times on less on others, that seems logical to me. for example a dog who is food aggressive; those bites will vary. some have "venom" (figuritivly) and some dont.

I think in a previous similar thread, someone made the point that the attitude of the dog doing the biting can have a lot to do with the amount of pressure maybe skewing the results by breed.

I think all these tests are really unfair.

I've taken bites from GSD's that bite like crap and GSD's that bite really really hard. The same goes for all the other breeds I've worked with. Show me a Rottie, and I'll find you a GSD that bites just as hard. That won't mean they all do.....

yea, 100 or 1500? its still hurts like the dickens-whose gonna care when that happens
but back to the question...

I agree with Jennifer and Mike about the biting test. I don't think the test is fair because it seems like not all give out their hardest bite. I believe it depends on their reaction and why/what they are biting. If a group of wolves go after a prey, they might try their hardest to hold down the prey through teeth. They might give out more force than the basic test.

I do believe that gators that are big can give around 3,000 to 6,000 psi when they catch a prey and do their "death roll." My guess on the bite force might not be accurate, but I am guessing as a chemist.

Hi Sandra
The Discovery Channel that i watch said that Rottie's where the hardest in bitting dogs and it was up around 390 psi.I have two k9 rottie's and two k9 GSD's they are used in diffent types of work. But they all are trained in bite work. And the Rottie's do bite harder. But my GSD's hit harder. My GSD's are faster then the Rottie's. But thats my dogs and i'm not saying thats how they all are.
K9CAJUN