And according to the rest of the family that's apparently means it's "not working" and we should go back to kibble *severe eye roll*

I suppose I should back up a little. I've been putting on the pressure for months now to switch to a raw diet. Since we've got the dog he's been smelly, itchy, greasy, and pretty gross, really.

So yesterday they broke down and got a pack of chicken leg quarters from the grocery store. This morning I cut one up into bite-size chunks. Dog wouldn't touch it, no surprise there, so I decided that we would try again at dinner time when he would be more hungry. Of course, this incites huge protests and accusations that I'm "being cruel" (can't make this stuff up!)

So come about ten minutes ago, I decide to give it another go. Thinking maybe the pieces with the bone in them were still too intimidating, I lopped off a few tiny pieces of meat and hand-fed them to him. He seemed to like that. I managed to sneak in a few chunks of bone, too. After a few minutes of this he wandered out into the living room where the rest of the family was watching TV and promptly vomited everything back up. And again I get yelled at for trying to force an "unnatural" diet on the poor creature (the irony of that statement would have really amused me if I wasn't so ticked off).

Long story short: Is this normal? Did he just have an upset stomach and would have barfed up his kibble? Should I just chuck the rest of the chicken out and give up? This is immensely frustrating. I'm not sure what they were expecting... that he would just magically eat it all up and suddenly be a new dog??? *sighs*

Start slowly. Get some ground chicken breast or turkey breast. Give very small meals (maybe three instead of one) for a couple of days. Don't overfeed. Try to get some chicken backs and remove the skin for the first few days. In fact, remove the skin from the legs, too.

Too much fat or too much food -- those are the usual vomiting triggers when you first switch.

I would order ANY of the nutrition books (scroll down) here.
http://leerburg.com/books.htm
Schultze and MacDonald are easy and fun reads, and very concise. They are also extremely inexpensive. Get the rest of the family on your side.

It's amazing how an outside authority can have influence where a familiar family member, no matter how well-read, has none.

P.S. The ground poultry will wake the dog up to the idea of fresh food without presenting him with a texture challenge, which can make the kibble dog suspicious.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Start slowly. Get some ground chicken breast or turkey breast. Give very small meals (maybe three instead of one) for a couple of days. Don't overfeed. Try to get some chicken backs and remove the skin for the first few days. In fact, remove the skin from the legs, too.

Too much fat or too much food -- those are the usual vomiting triggers when you first switch.

I would order ANY of the nutrition books (scroll down) here. Schultze and MacDonald are easy and fun reads, and very concise. Get the rest of the family on your side.

It's amazing how an outside authority can have influence where a familiar family member, no matter how well-read, has none.

Okay, too much fat. That makes sense; those pieces were pretty, er... gelatinous. =)

I have the Schultze book. Actually, that was what pushed my mother over to my side after she read some of the stories about dogs' ear infections and lipomas disappearing (our dog has both, and then some!). I'm not overly fond of her position on feeding veggies and supplements, but that's JMO.

How long can I keep the chicken frozen in the fridge, BTW? I'd hate to have to get rid of it, even though it was cheap (one of the packages went straight to the freezer, the other has been in the fridge).

ADDED: mom just asked if there is a specific amount of the ground meat we're supposed to give. I can't imagine that there would be, but might as well ask. He's 75 lbs, 7 years old and moderately active if that helps at all. =)

 Quote: Ashley Hiebing

How long can I keep the chicken frozen in the fridge, BTW? I'd hate to have to get rid of it, even though it was cheap (one of the packages went straight to the freezer, the other has been in the fridge).

You're gonna' have to TRY to keep it too long.

I don't know an exact time limit to tell you, but can promise that you won't leave it in there too long. Haven't heard of a dog discriminating fresh frozen from freezer burnt. I've fed stuff over 2 years old with no ill effect.

Its also O.K. to re-freeze uneaten food.

 Quote: Ashley Hiebing

I'm not overly fond of her position on feeding veggies and supplements

These are two areas that are not as critical as the meat-bone ratio.

The fish oil and Vitamin E are the supplements that virtually every modern diet, whether kibble or fresh, needs, and that's explained in many posts here as well as on Leerburg.com.

Produce can be very simple and should be quite small. Easy.

 Quote: Ashley Hiebing

ADDED: mom just asked if there is a specific amount of the ground meat we're supposed to give. I can't imagine that there would be, but might as well ask. He's 75 lbs, 7 years old and moderately active if that helps at all. =)

Yes, you want to give a total of about 2% to 2.5% of his weight (or his ideal weight, if he is not at that weight now), which works out to about 1.5 pounds for your dog. At age 7, 2% will probably work. You can judge by his waistline and belly tuck-up from the side view.

However, that's the weight of RMBs, and bones are not lightweight, so you will adjust it for straight meat. I would give 4 ounces in the morning, 4 at noon, and 4 in the evening, just for now, for a day or two, and if that goes perfectly, then I would start with fat-removed RMBs at about 2% of his weight.

I would add each new ingredient (the fat and skin, organs, new protein sources, etc.) only as each new step is seen to be well-received. This way you can identify any problem ingredient.

By the way, while vomiting can mean illness or gastric distress in the dog, it can also just mean that his system decided to return an item because it was too fatty, too rich, too whatever. The canine system is VERY efficient at ridding itself of problem foods at both ends.

You will see dogs ack up something that was maybe too big or not chewed enough, and then immediately re-eat it with an extra chew to solve the problem.

Just saying that you will want to watch the dog for signs of actual illness (lethargy, etc.), but also keep in mind that he probably just wasn't ready for the fat and bones in that amount yet.

Now, the meat/bone ratio, is that the 80-10-10 for prey-model that I see often, or is there some other "better" set of percentages that I'm not aware of? I know that one shouldn't be quite so precise and shouldn't over-complicate things more than they need to be, but there's a lot I don't know and I don't want to screw this up anymore than I have to =P

I'm curious as to why the Vit E and fish oil need to be supplemented. Isn't there a more bioavailable source of them?

Also he is at ideal weight, thankfully. He was quite bony when we got him, but he's at just the right spot now.