I'm searching for some basic obedience classes in my area, and after inquiring by email about classes with one group, this is part of the reply I received:

"We do not allow prong collars in our classes, the Humane Society does not allow them either. If you need a little more leverage with your big strong dogs, a Halti type head collar can be used to start and faded when the dogs have more focus and self-control. We teach clicker training. "Motivational/food reward based training" covers a lot of territory. Food for thought: if you have to give corrections (I'm assuming you mean collar corrections- aka jerk/pinch), even after the dog "knows" the behavior, you might want to consider a more effective training method."

As I understood it from this website & forum (Leerburg), there are several steps during training, and one of those steps includes a correction if a dog does not respond to a command it understands. Does a dog ever outgrow corrections? If you have to correct for the same behavior for an extended period of time I can see where your training may not be effective... maybe the dog is still confused as to what you want?

Also... At some level isn't saying "no" a type of correction, too? Over the life of the dog I can't imagine a time when you can stop giving corrections verbal or leash for good. Am I missing something here?

I suppose I feel a little like I got a slap on the wrist, lol. To be honest I'm happy with the prong and its use... I tried it on my arm and it wasn't torture-- far from it. I've never used a halti, but I saw one being used on a great dane and it looked pretty uncomfortable. It also didn't look like it'd do a whole lot of good if the dog got upset, except maybe freak it out.

Please forgive my ramble, but I am curious on the corrections question during the life of the dog.

Thanks again everyone-

Carolyn,
Don't worry about "a slap on the wrist" - whoever sent you that reply is an idiot that knows zip about dog training.
You're better off not wasting your valuable time with fools like that.

Thanks for the encouragement Will- I'll knew I should keep searching. Just for kicks my reply to her was as follows:

"Thanks so much for your response.

It doesn’t sound like this may be the class for us. Unfortunately I don’t believe in using a “halti” or similar head collar because of the potential damage to the dog’s neck and spine. In my opinion the pinch collar is a very effective and much safer training tool when used appropriately.

Thanks again for your time, however, and good luck to all those testing for the CGC tonight."

I agree with Will.

And the person who sent you that reply is probably one that begs, pleads and cajoles their dogs (as well as teaching others to do the same) into behaving.

Reading these posts I am wondering what I will encounter in my search for a dog trainer. The only ones I have found in my area so far is pet smart and pet co. I don't want to waste my money or waste those trainers time, because I will probably get kicked out, or just have to quit, because I do not agree with their methods. I do believe in corrections, and they don't. I hope I can find a good dog trainer or dog training school in my area, I live in Riverside California. Does anyone have any info on good trainers in my area in the area of basic dog obedience?

I agree with the other posts, don't loose heart and don't give up looking.

I am so grateful for Ed's videos and what I have learned too, I would be a lamb led to the slaughter without the wisdom he has given and would have ended up doing a great dis-service to my dogs.
ANy help with recommendations out here in riverside county in california is appreciated.
THanks

Hey Sharon, you may surprise yourself at how much you accomplish with what you learn from those Dvd's.

I'm right there with you Sharon. So far the closest club I've found is 2 hrs away; too far for regular trips. Hopefully I'll find somewhere closer!

I ordered one of Ed's dvds by the way, and it has helped tremendously. I was just thinking if I could get Jake/Dixon and me into classes for a little more structure and hands on guidance, it would be good for us... plus some controlled exposure to other dogs who are under control, lol. My neighborhood strays are so hard to work with

I admitted to the person described in my first post that I was a beginner, I won't pretend I know everything. That doesn't mean I have to be completely ignorant though, lol.

Carolyn, I don't like that the person told you ""We do not allow prong collars in our classes, the Humane Society does not allow them either." She's using the Humane Society's view to validate her own. As if the Humane Society has THE handle on training dogs (if any handle whatsoever).

I'm not against the Humane Society, but they're not dog trainers.

Carolyn, I agree with the others. Good thing you found this out now and didn't waste your time.

Sharon, Steve is exactly right. It depends on what your goals are, but, I, now can't see myself looking for a dog trainer for pet training (Sport is another story). I've learned so much here and via internet.

I took my dog to a petsmart beginners class when she was 5 mos old. That was a HUGE waste of time and THE WORST $99 I've ever spent. Now, when I think I could've bought 2 of Ed's DVDs instead, I regret so much I took that class.

WOW! I had a dog in ob training in 1990 and the trainer wouldn't allow choke/chain collars due to them being inhumane. She said the prong/pinch collar was much more humane and effective and when demonstrated, it was obvious.

Where would one find the ne Soc rules on collars?


Humahttp://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/our_pets_for_life_program/dog_behavior_tip_sheets/how_to_use_a_head_halter.html

Oops. I think I answered my own question, but I don't read it to say inhumane but rather they think the haltie is more humane.

Is it written any other place, if not, they I think this is open for interpretation.