 When using a marker, can you change the reward?
#185255 - 03/10/2008 09:28 PM |
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Tonight I started teaching Kodee a new game (Find It!), and I didn't have any treats handy. Instead of taking my lazy butt into the kitchen & getting some, I tried just using verbal praise/petting as a reward for his marker ("Yes!"). Normally, "Yes!" means a food reward. Tonight is the first time I've used a different reward (praise/physical affection).
It seemed to work fine (he's catching on to this new game quickly), but before we proceed any further, I wanted to double-check and make sure that this won't end up confusing Kodee. Can a marker mean "Something (anything) good is gonna happen" - treats/praise/ball toss), or does it always have to mean the exact same thing? (I have always used treats and the marker to teach new commands, then once he's learned the command, from then on I usually use a ball to practice/reinforce his training on the new command - he will do anything to get me to toss his Ultra Ball.
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward?
[Re: Kori Bigge ]
#185276 - 03/11/2008 07:27 AM |
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Kori, one thing I read (and use) from Sheila Booth's book 'Purely Positive Training' is to pair the reward with a word or phrase. So, you mark and when you reward you simultaneously say something.
Eventually the dog will link the phrase with being rewarded and you can substitute the phrase for a treat.
I use 'good girl' when I reward; if I don't have a treat I mark and say 'good girl!' and pat her instead of giving a food reward.
I think this makes the link clearer to the dog...
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Guest1 wrote 03/11/2008 09:06 AM
Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward?
[Re: Lynne Barrows ]
#185296 - 03/11/2008 09:06 AM |
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Lynne,
I assume you're saying the "mark" you use is a different utterance than "good girl"?
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward?
[Re: Guest1 ]
#185298 - 03/11/2008 09:13 AM |
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Lynne,
I assume you're saying the "mark" you use is a different utterance than "good girl"?
Yes, the mark is 'yes!'.
'Good girl!' is paired w/ the reward...
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward
[Re: Guest1 ]
#185303 - 03/11/2008 09:20 AM |
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Steve.....great pic. Looks kinda like my Lab from yesterday... 
I guess I always say "yes", treat and then sometimes I throw in a "good <insert command name here>"
I do not say it all of the time since the dog knows it has already done the correct thing by hearing "yes" and the reward that follows.
None of my dogs could care if they are petted while we are working or training. There is a time for that.
If I open my arms, my dogs will come to me, sit close and relish in getting loved up, but they would really rather be doing something else.....like shredding stuff.
To me, petting is not the best reward, I mean, would you want to work hard just to have your boss pat you on the head and say, "good job"?
Some dogs it works, but not too many.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#185313 - 03/11/2008 09:43 AM |
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None of my dogs could care if they are petted while we are working or training. There is a time for that.
If I open my arms, my dogs will come to me, sit close and relish in getting loved up, but they would really rather be doing something else.....like shredding stuff. Same with Lear
To me, petting is not the best reward, I mean, would you want to work hard just to have your boss pat you on the head and say, "good job"?
Some dogs it works, but not too many. Agreed...Lear would be asking "where's the beef?".
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#185322 - 03/11/2008 09:57 AM |
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None of my dogs could care if they are petted while we are working or training. There is a time for that.
Absolutely. I'm talking about a quick pat or scratch behind the ears. The pat is not the reward, the phrase is...
The point of the pairing ( as I understand from the book I referenced earlier) is that the dog associates the phrase with the reward, so that eventually it can be used as a substitute for the food reward, if needed.
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward
[Re: Sandy Moore ]
#185334 - 03/11/2008 10:16 AM |
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Carol or Sandy, as experienced trainers, what do you do if you are in a situation where you want to mark a behavior, but don't have a food reward or toy handy?
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Re: When using a marker, can you change the reward
[Re: Lynne Barrows ]
#185340 - 03/11/2008 10:37 AM |
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Carol or Sandy, as experienced trainers, what do you do if you are in a situation where you want to mark a behavior, but don't have a food reward or toy handy?
Well, of course the get verbal praise, however, I really try not to be with out a toy or food in my pocket (and I can usually turn anything into a toy...pine cones work great in a pinch). My dogs will actually duck away to avoid a head pat, they are happy, just not real into being petted for praise.
I thought checking Doug's pockets before laundry was bad, geesh, the stuff I pull out of mine..... 
I also hang my training aprons by each door and have ziplocks with treats in them. It is one of my main pieces of clothing now.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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