Hi,

I'm watching the pack leader video and i have a question. I'm about an hr into it, but when Mr. Frawley mentions isolating the dog, does he mean putting the crate somewhere completely away from everyone in the house? I'm assuming so. ??

Also, my dog is 11 mths already and has dominance issues and nipping/biting issues. He prob received no training at all in his first home (I think he had his own bedroom and plate at the table. He's a mess...) and we've had him only 4 weeks. In our 4 weeks we've been trying to correct his behavior (and our early mistakes).

We kept him on leash 24/7 for the past at least 2 weeks, now, when he is out of the crate, but we have been doing training with him (commands, etc), and I have kept him out with me and have been trying to stop the nipping,etc with "no chew".

So, do I start completely from scratch and do the isolating, anyway? On the rare times he's managed to escape the leash--for ex, me juggling two things at once and he gets away briefly, He usually grabs something he shouldn't and tries to get me to chase him which I don't. He doesn't come when I call or if he does, he comes to me just out of reach and teases me to chase him which I don't. I usually have to don my coat and suggest we go outside to get him to come and sit to get leashed again. Then I take him outside to follow thru, otherwise he's so smart it wouldn't take long for him to figure out the ruse.

again, should I start from scratch? I'm guessing so.

Thanks,

Kim

Also, some clarification: I'm assuming I have a hard dog. The "no chew" is often ignored or only obeyed for about 5 seconds...he complies on a leash, but on those times off leash he blows us all off and does his own thing. He thinks he owns the world at this point.

He is starting to comply to "no chew" with me (we decided i should be his boss since I'm home with him the most), but some days he blows me off and is as "wild as the dickens." I'm trying to exercise him more to work off the energy.

Picking him up by the scruff of the neck and saying no chew works sometimes but only briefly.

Hard dog? Right? Just bite the bullet and get the prong collar because he'll never stop otherwise? Again, he's 11 mths and already being a dominant dog. (We stopped (are stopping) the humping, the furniture jumping, mooching, door/stairway rushing, etc on leash and he's complying okay but off leash all bets are off.)

Thanks,
Kim

Sorry, one final. I just read thru the THeory of Dog Correction and it has ans some of the above. Sheesh, so much to read! I got a family to take care of, LOL. ANyway, anything you want to add would be appreciated. THanks!

Kim

Im not sure that constitutes "hard". frankly, I would suspect that the dog doesnt really know what you want, or that you want it permanently...
I would start with the isolation, it works so well that its always worth it. I know you already know this but excersise is paramount, it sounds like (11 mo old) being a teenager the dog has energy to spare :smile: good luck, I know some more experienced members will give more thorough advice.

Thanks. FWIW, today I did isolate him, mostly because I homeschool and I spent time here on the leerburg site and watching part of the pack leader dvd...

I got him out around 4ish. Walked him over to my chair, I sat down and began to read and really didn't pay any attention to him. He was fine at first and sat next to me. Then he sees his other leash over on the piano bench and goes for it. I said no, he ignores, won't drop it, ends up in the crate again. I waited about 10 mins and went back to reading. Didn't look at him at all in his crate. Went over again, let him out (on leash of course), did the same drill. HE went for the leash again. He picked it up and I told him no, drop it. He dropped it this time and stared, then picked it up again. Told him to drop it and mentioned the word "crate" which he knows, and he just stared and stared, and then with a "humph" laid down. Stayed there quietly, went to an end table and started to admire the goodies, hopped up and I said "no" a couple of times and he left it alone and sat down again. He managed to stay out without screwing up this time.

I'm also having trouble with poops outside. He wants to do it on a walk and not in his pee area but we're working on that, too.

Kim

Oh, he's been told enough to know I want it permanently. He's just stubborn, believe you me. You should have seen the fit he threw in his crate the first time/day we fed him *last* after we ate. He was okay with me eating first, but at evening time when my daughter sat down at the table, he didn't like that *at all!* He cried out in betrayal, threw himself down in his crate with a very loud "humph!". LOL. But after day one he accepted this as his new reality. He still cries and barks when daughter sits on dad's lap, though. <grin> He definitely sees her as his direct competition.

Kim

Dear Kim: I wouldn't like the fact your dog considers your daugther the competition. That could develop into problems later on. I would hope he would consider her a fellow pack member that is a higher rank than he.
I am sure you don't do this, but be careful not to think it is cute that he gets so fussy about your daughter being on your husbands lap. He can pick up on that and you can even encourage him to act that way without realizing it.

I agree with isolation, and training, and much rewards for good behavior. Do you praise him alot when he does something you have asked? Do you give him a treat for a correct behavior? Do you have fun with him?

I would also try marker training, with the word good or yes, or whatever word you want to use, for whenever he looks at you, or does any good behavior. He needs to know what pleases you. Even though he is 11 months old, I would do as others have suggested and start from scratch. It really helped me when I adopted Bindi who was about a year old.

I would also encourage you to be consistent. It makes a world of difference. Decide with your family what you like and what you don't like about his behavior, what words you want to use for correction, or for praise, and stick to it. It is kinda like raising kids. Consistency, Consistency, Consistency.

May God bless you

OFfering something appropriate to chew is a good strategy,
at home if they start to chew at something or get mouthy with me, I tell them NO BITE! wait about 30 seconds then give them something appropriate tell them "here" as in here you go, and praise when they settle down to chew or play with it.

I keep bones, toys, treats etc within reach most of the time so that I can redirect and teach appropriate substitute behaviors rather than relying on corrections all the time.

at his age I would guess that after 4 weeks he is still trying to settle in and figure out his new people and the new rules.

Oh, other than the theatrics being a bit humorous coming from a cockapoo (white 22lb furball), we take it seriously. He's in the crate when he does this and we usually say "no" if it keeps up.
Now I am the only one who corrects him.

I finished watching the pack leadership dvd and honestly I didn't get much out of it that I haven't realized already from just reading his stuff online. I could have saved myself $40 and just read the rest of his articles and worked on my own.

But at least I did get something out of the "establishing structure" watching his dogs interact. I saw some of it when Toby, my dog, tossled my daughter on the floor the first week we had him (and this action started me down the road that lead me to this site.)

My orig mistake was telling my daughter she needed to stop being timid and telling her she needed to be firm and stop the behavior so that he would respect her. (she's 11) Now I understand (just before getting the dvd, sigh) that **I'm** the one who has to control him and tell him to leave her alone, since I'm the leader.

What I really needed help with/ans to but didn't get from the dvd is--are there dogs who will comply only on leash; ones who are smart enough to know that, without a leash (or elec device)the owner can't do anything to stop him? Ones who never fully submit unless forced with a collar of some type?

Why ask this? Why can't I see that est myself as leader should stop this? That the dog will obey once he sees me as leader?

Because on his DVD, his dogs were sometimes worse than mine at having to be told over and over to stop & do, and I don't use markers. Mine learned very quickly to stop at doors and stairs, etc. He learned overnight to stay off furniture and wait until last to eat...on leash. I'm wondering if I need to use treats at all after the dvd, cuz mine is responding as well as his dogs without markers on a leash. It's off leash that he doesn't care what I do! He knows his real enemy is the leash/crate! He scratches and chews at it for that reason (leash).

Also, he must spend gobs of money on marker training treats every year. I don't think I could afford what he does. Treats
aren't cheap IMHO.

I'm not trying to be nasty, honest. I appreciate what I've learned from the articles and podcasts and that is worth more to me then the DVD.

But I don't think Toby is all that bad, now that I've seen the dvd! I never saw any of his dogs off leash with no type of electric device to see if they responded better/as well to his commands or not!

Also, it appeared to me that most of his animals live *outside* in kennels, or in a place inside away from the family living area! I only saw one scene in a kitchen and the dog was on a leash and doing marker training. I would have liked to view him working with a dog off leash in a family room with people walking around. I know this must take place; he mentions putting beds all over the house.

IMHO, If a dog is off leash and across the room and there is no threat of prong collar, I guess Mr. Frawley has to use an electric collar to get them to obey/respond, which tells me they aren't trained without some type of control in place. I'm
assuming/hope I'm wrong on that. I'm assuming that eventually all of his dogs move off all control devices and freely move around the house - except for the really hard cases. I would have liked to have seen end results in the house.

Toby is actually pretty far along in some areas already and I just need to keep going with what I've been doing this past week, apparently. ...and keep reading the articles/viewing the podcasts...and hope and pray he gets the point that he has to obey me off leash as well as on leash.

Sorry for the rambling. I just wanted to see training off leash, I guess. LOL.

Kim

Dear Kim: when you first are learning about dog obedience it is natural to be confused. I understand you want to learn all you can and do the best for your dogs. It takes time, first to evaluate your dog, how is it driven? treats or toys? Second, to be consistent. Here are the comments I want to address:

"Because on his DVD, his dogs were sometimes worse than mine at having to be told over and over to stop & do, and I don't use markers. Mine learned very quickly to stop at doors and stairs, etc. He learned overnight to stay off furniture and wait until last to eat...on leash. I'm wondering if I need to use treats at all after the dvd, cuz mine is responding as well as his dogs without markers on a leash. It's off leash that he doesn't care what I do! He knows his real enemy is the leash/crate! He scratches and chews at it for that reason (leash).

Also, he must spend gobs of money on marker training treats every year. I don't think I could afford what he does. Treats
aren't cheap IMHO"

All dogs have good and bad days and areas of weakness. Our dogs are very smart and will learn quickly that on leash we have control over them. That is why it is good to use a drag line and to leave it on for a long time so they forget about it. With ecollars you have to use the collar for awhile without activating it, exchanging colors often, so they don't figure it out. Even if dogs are kept outside away from family,and are brought in occassionally, they have to learn the same manners as those in the house. Treats can be expensive. what you can do, as Ed shows in one of his videos, is to use lunch meat cut up, or any other left overs that your dogs like. Find out what your dog likes and stick with it. I have used cut up turkey, ham, chicken, chuncks of left over burgers, etc. to treat my dogs.

I know this can be overwhelming at first. But just take one area and work on it until your dogs have it down pat. and if your dog faulters, refresh.

You can look for good behaviors to reinforce too. Your post sounds like you are overwhemlmed. Just take one thing at a time. The ecollar I believe is great when it is time to go off leash and you still want that control over your dog, and you want your dog to know you have that control over him. It helps your dog to learn, no matter where he is, what he is doing, he must obey.

I have found Ed's written articles, videos, very helpful and each thing I put into practice has really paid off.

You will do fine. Build a bond with your dog, continue to show it you are the boss (fairly) and things will change over time.
You might think you didn't get much out of Ed's video, but you will probably find as you continue to watch it, there will be things you missed. He gives us lots of information and sometimes we miss something, especially when we are starting out and new to dog training and handling of a dog.


God bless you