I just got some of the liver mesquite Simon and Huey treats from Leerburg. Kodee loves them - to the point that I can't get him to concentrate on training, I think. Is that possibly our problem tonight? Usually he's focused and trying to figure out what I'm asking him to do. tonight he seems too focused on the treat to concentrate. Does that (can that) happen? If so, I guess I will have to use these for re-inforcing commands he already knows. (We are working on a new one right now.) Or is there no such thing as a treat with too high a value, and we're just having an off night?

Kori IMO there is little possibility that the "treat value" is to high for the dog to learn. You just need patience in that you must wait until the dog give you the behavior you want and at that instance give him a treat. If he doesn't show you the desired behavior just be calm and don't give him anything, even if it means that you put him up and try again later or next session. Sometimes dogs will go through everything they know or think may produce that treat. It is important that he learns that the only thing that will produce that treat for him is the behavior. Once this is learned by the dog you will have a dog that will show great power in obedience and his eagerness to learn will pay dividends.

Kori;
In my experience, yes, drives can be Too high for the dog to learn (food, prey, and fight), so we have to use the tools in the right way to foster optim success. I have people choose food of different value to the dog. When the task is new or complex, I use a low to medium value treat so the dog can concentrate. When I want to build excitement, I use the best
(in the dogs view), I can also use this to my advantage, example, when I am asking the dog to focus on me in a new environment. I often use string cheese, hot dogs, and cheerios.
Three examples of treats with different values.
I ask people to have their dogs try a treat, watch the dogs eyes and see the differnt reactions. Really fun!!!!! Especially when they cross.......

Treat value can definately be too high sometimes. My lab is the kind of dog who often has that problem with cheese. Basically I could walk her into a brick wall and she still wouldn't understand why she is there she's so focused on the reward. I can usually tell that it's gotten out of hand if she goes directly for the bait bag and corrections don't seem to get the point across that the bait bag is mine.

Roni and Melissa a question. Did you advise in the beginning, before teaching any moving exercise, teaching focus with these high valued treats. The pup in my video had extreme food drive but that drive was harnessed by not trying to shape any obedience behavior until the dog was able to control himself for 30 seconds at the beginning heeling position in a sit with proper focus without moving.

 Quote: Roni Hoff

Kori;
When the task is new or complex, I use a low to medium value treat so the dog can concentrate. When I want to build excitement, I use the best

Norman, I make that decision based on inate temperment, drives,
previous training, and environment and if I am instructing, the ability of the handler. True learning, with the least amount of repetitions happen when both the handler and the dog are in their comfort zone. This is where I think MOST training methods fall short. Usually people have to correct in the teaching phase because they are working in the incorrect drive for learning to occur. For example, using steak to teach a sit and the dog keeps breaking a sit to get the treat so the handler gives the dog a leash correction, WRONG, bad dog,,,,,,WRONG bad owner,,,,,,,,,try a cheerio and position yourself using correct
body language, (hands at side, not fiddling in the food bag)and then of course we could talk about using food first as a lure and then very quickly moving to a reward. But that is another thread. FOCUS is in a sit position is very difficult!!!!!!!
AND emtionally trying on a dog,,,,,,so I am very careful with that move........I really balance that position.

 Quote:

Posted by Roni Hoff
FOCUS is in a sit position is very difficult!!!!!!!

I didn't want anyone to think I started out with having the pup focus for 30 seconds. I started out having the pup focus for 3 seconds and built on that until the dog was able to focus for 30 seconds. I have not found it difficult to shape this behavior if my timing is correct and the dogs food drive was adequate.

As an adjunct to my last post regarding teaching focus from the beginning, here is a link http://youtube.com/watch?v=aSoC6q_J89c
to some beginning obedience with a 7 month old Boerboel which is a mastiff for those who are not familiar with the breed. Mastiff's at any age are not known for there happy obedience or there focus. Moreover because the mastiff matures much later than a herder, a 7 month old mastiff is on the same learning level as a 2-3 month old herder. If you note I am just beginning the transition from the dog following the food to teaching him it is the position that gets him his reward. Therefore no matter where my food-hand is the dogs focus never changes. His effort is the result of early focus training. Again I am not implying this is the only way to teach a dog correct heeling but just something for you to consider.

Norman, when you teach this extended focus, you work on duration w/ no distractions, and then add distractions once you have reached the 30 sec threshhold?
Nice video; I wish you would add commentary!
(Kori, sorry for the hijack...Norman, would you want to start a new thread?)

Dear Norman:
I think I am going to go back to this with my dog Cody. He does pretty well, but has extremely high drive for toys or food. And I have had a hard time getting him to heel. He is always running. When I ask him to go to his "mat" (place) he runs, everything I ask of him he does quickly and in fast motion. So when I take him out to heel, even in the house or his own back yard, he does what he always does, goes in quick motion once the leash is attached. I require a sit position to attach his leash, and will wait and not put the leash on until he sits, and I require a wait at the door before we go out, and he is still in the gates like a race horse ready for action! I am sure this will be a good behavior for him once he matures, but like all young things, people included, when a gift isn't tempered by maturity it is a mess. So, I am going to begin this with Cody. I will watch the video again.
Bindi on the other hand, is very active, but very focused on me and pleasing me, her drive isn't quite as high. She isn't much into toys, food is her thing. She heels nicely and we so enjoy our walks and adventures together. She looks like a very happy little dog as we walk along, her little head turned toward me trotting along. I am learning how different dogs tempermenants can be. It is very exciting.
Thank you for your input.
May God bless you