i was talking to a guy was training his ttd dog, he said that he lays his tracks then lets them age and then runs them with his dog.what is the general opinion out there about this.
Rob

I think that if you are talking about footstep to footstep tracking where the dog is looking for "ground disturbance" or "crushed vegetation" scent then there is no issue with laying your own tracks.

If you are talking about a "human odor detection/air scent" or "trailing" dog, then I do not recommend laying your own trails.
My Bloodhound would look at me like I had gone off my meds if I asked him to trail me when I am standing right behind him.....

I think this was confused, or not understood well at least, in an earlier thread.

We do use tracking to start pups and young dogs now, even though they will be switched to human odor eventually.

I am just going to watch Ed's DVD (or start it at least) tonight.


(I am not really on meds...........yet)

If you are training for TTD, there should always be a subject at the end of the trail instead of a pile of food (which is used for FST). I would still have the subject lay the trail, so the scent on the trail matches the subject he gets to find (thats the fun part!)

You may want to check to see if Leerburg has training videos just for TTD.

TTD Volume 1

TTD Volumes 2 and 3

When I train with LE, a lot of times I lay a track for them and leave a toy at the end of the track. The dogs do not always get to find a victim.

Tracking is totally different from trailing IMHO....ground disturbance is totally different from human scent training as well.

I still suggest getting the videos and reading this...

http://leerburg.com/pdf/tracking.pdf

specifically the bottom of page six. The dog is expecting the possibility of biting someone at the end of the track. If he is all geared up for a fight, I question what it would do to the dog to find a toy instead. I would still have the subject lay the track and return to his hiding place later. The biggest motivator for the dog to track is getting the bite at the end. JMO.

Don't forget to read the top of page 7 where he explains that he said "possibility" and that there will not always be someone at the end. Variable schedule of reward comes to mind here.....

Also, we are talking about a handler laying his own tracks and whether it is bad or not. It is not bad to train your dog to track...some of these dogs that are learning have not been taught that there will be a "bite" at the end. Just like preparing your dog for the helper, you can start your dog in tracking yourself.

When you are first starting out, you teach each thing separately and then put it together as the dog learns. Just like teaching the components for a SAR dog, or any dog that is being trained to do a specific task. You don't just put the whole thing out there and expect the dog to "get it".
(I know some that think they have an Omni dog that can do it all the first time, but they are sadly mistaken)

Schutzhund 1= handler lays their own track, so it must be something that is done. Tracking is footstep to footstep tracking is different from a dog looking for human odor during a trail or airscent. The dogs are looking for "ground disturbance" not human scent.

Read the top of page 7 again.

Ooops, forgot to say to give the dog a bite at the end...my bad.
Still variable schedule of reward.

Rob, I start all of my pups on tracks I lay myself. They are started by simply following along when they are about 8 wks old. I will run a short distance with them chasing me by sight. I let them catch me and a game of wrestling and tug will ensue. These games are repeated two or three times a wk. and as the pups get stronger I will run completely out of their sight, they usually instinctively put their noses to the ground and begin to track. When the pups get to fast to outrun I put them in a stock trailer and run away opening the door with a 300 ft. rope. I run away as fast and far as I can until they catch me. When they become to strong and fast for this game, I will run away from the trailer and have a helper pop the gate after I have been gone for a few minutes. I will run until they catch me and usually go up a tree or under something and make them tree or dig me out. I usually keep these games going and make the tracks progressively longer and more difficult. When the pups are around six months old I let my helper start laying the tracks. From this point on I never play the role of the bad-guy again. My old dogs acts as though my track doesen't exist when they come across it. They will not run the track of an individual if that individual is in close proximity to me. I think it would be a bad idea to encourage a dog to run a track if the person that laid the track is present. After all the purpose of tracking (in my world ) is to find a person that is lost or evading.

i found that kinda weird he was laying his own track for a four year gsd.which he stated was trained in tracking through drive, i just wanted to know what people thaught of that thanks for all the posts