 Does size matter with scent articles?
#187196 - 03/25/2008 12:23 AM |
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If left out the same amount of time, will a "small object" leave a comparable scent cone to a "large object"?
Example:
I am working with my dog to air scent dead deer. Will a deer head or other deer part leave a scent cone comparable to a whole deer if left out long enough?
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#187201 - 03/25/2008 06:34 AM |
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While "set time" does increase the amount of available odor, it's still not the same as having a whole deer. This is also seen in many types of detector dogs, drugs, explosives, cadaver etc, where they are worked primarily on small odors. When confronted with a large odor, they sometimes have trouble locating source because they have reached to point of saturation. Certainly not an insurmountable problem, but one that is not uncommon.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#187203 - 03/25/2008 06:59 AM |
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Another good reason to train with large amounts of "product" whenever possible. I've seen this happen so many times; and its usually very embarrassing! Doing bomb work it is a must.
Howard
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Howard Knauf ]
#187212 - 03/25/2008 09:28 AM |
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Michael,
I think you asked me this and I forgot to answer.....my apologies.
I train with small (3oz) to large (lbs) when I train with my cadaver dogs. I have been lucky enough to work three scenes with Jesea so she has been exposed to them and the first one she was a little confused at first.
I agree that training with large amounts is important, although it is tough in my line of work to get large amounts. 
I have hides that have been out for a couple weeks, up to a year now. They are buried, on the surface and hung high. Some are small and some are bigger.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#187214 - 03/25/2008 09:44 AM |
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Hi Michael,
In answer to your question, the amount you leave out plus the wind speeds are important. Your scent cone will vary with wind speeds. The higher the wind speeds, the bigger the scent cone will be and scent particles will be more dispersed. The lighter the wind, the smaller the scent cone will be with scent particles more condensed. Some dogs work well in scent cones with only trace amounts to smell but I agree with David, since you are training to track wounded or dead deer it would be better to use larger amounts if possible.
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Sandra Vernlund ]
#187216 - 03/25/2008 09:52 AM |
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"The higher the wind speeds, the bigger the scent cone will be and scent particles will be more dispersed. The lighter the wind, the smaller the scent cone will be with scent particles more condensed."
ACtually, you have that backwards. The higher the wind speed, the narrower and longer the cone becomes. The lower the wind speed, the wider the cone becomes. A good way to visualize this is the use of a smoke grenade. It presents a very visible "scent cone".
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#187219 - 03/25/2008 09:58 AM |
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I don't think so Dave. I look up the link and PM you.
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Sandra Vernlund ]
#187224 - 03/25/2008 10:41 AM |
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Sandra,
I'd like to know as well, which is it?
Actually I think we'd all like to know.
Randy
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: Sandra Vernlund ]
#187226 - 03/25/2008 10:44 AM |
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I don't think so Dave. I look up the link and PM you.
Sandra you can look it up, but the more velocity of the wind, the narrower the cone. Think about it, as the wind pushes the odor (visualize smoke) it starts small from source and stays narrow for longer distances. I've drawn that diagram so many times on a chalk board I can teach that lesson in my sleep.
DFrost
Any behavior that is reinforced is more likely to occur again. |
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Re: Does size matter with scent articles?
[Re: David C.Frost ]
#187227 - 03/25/2008 11:06 AM |
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I've absolutely heard what David said about the shape and relative "dimensions" of the "cone"
....... but coning conditions are an ideal situation - flat terrain, overcast sky. Usually it is much more complex with all kinds of nuances relative to terrain, wind, cloud cover, time of day. Smoke Bombs are great (you can even throw them into water)
I think *maybe* what Sandra is trying to say is consider a point source, no wind, light wind - the scent may be more concentrated in a smaller broader area as it has not traveled as far than when there is more wind. For example, no wind-no clouds, you will see the smoke linger more (more "concentration" in a broad area, but high wind it will "disappear" rapidly in a narrow stream. Kind of like when I burn something in the kitchen I put a fan in the window to "blow away" the lingering odor.
But the "concentration" of scent will be a mix of the "area" of the "cone" and the total amount of scent in the air; kind of textbooky. Dog works from low concentration to high regardless.
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