Hi everyone,

For those who don't know me yet, I'm almost new to the board, and to dogs. Before we adopted a rescue, I searched the internet and I really liked the training philosophy that I found here. I read all the ebooks and have had some good advice from people here. Now to the real world...

We adopted an 11 month old neutered Canaan dog called Darwin. Canaans are sheepdogs by breeding and it shows in his personality. He's gentle and unaggressive at home with the family, but as the AKC puts it: "aloof with strangers". Well, that's a bit of an understatement. He has a big problem with other dogs. When we're on walks, if he sees another dog, he stands still and stares them down. Sometimes I can "pop" him and he'll move along, but sometimes he refuses to move, and even if I give a serious correction that pulls him off his feet, he just gets up and digs his heels in again.

The problem is that where I live, almost all dogs are left loose without leash or fence. That means that even if we move on, the other dog often follows, keeping a 20 yard distance. I assumed that the best response is to walk away, but is there a better way?

If the other dog gets too close (say, closer than 10 yards), I put myself between the two. A couple of times I tried to shoo the other dog away. Big mistake. Darwin took that as my "attack" signal and became much more aggressive, barking and straining at the leash (which I was holding at about 1ft).

I've been slowly taking him to places with a few dogs, and getting him to "sit" and "stay" and praising him highly for that, and I think that works somewhat. But I'm brand new to this game, and I'm sure that my problem is an old one. What's the best way to get Darwin to relax a bit and to remain "aloof", but not aggressive?

Initially when I started walking my pup (now 21 mos), I also would try to shoo the other dog away, or say a loud "no" or "go home" (which I doubt any of these loose dogs understand) and it did the same thing to my pup as it does to your Darwin. It made him think there was a threat and he responded accordingly.

What kind of collar do you use? It may not give a strong enough correction. Granted it may fire up the aggression in a dog, but if your dog is just staring and standing still, it may work for you. Your dog has to go with you when you tell him and the prong will help with that. I think you're doing good and I don't know that I'd change anything if the other dog is not aggressive. If the loose dog is aggressive, I don't want my dog's back to the him. That just doesn't go over very well and he keeps looking back anyway. It's too vulnerable a position for a dog.

If the loose dog is just calmly following for a few feet (not showing any even slightly menacing position or look in the eyes), then I'll keep walking my dog. But if the loose dog IS menacing, I will face it with my dog and stand there, pulling out my pepper spray in case the other dog attacks, keeping my dog quiet so there's as little provocation as possible. Sometimes keeping him quiet is tough but that's what I aim for.

It's very hard to know what to do about loose dogs. Some people carry batons, the kind that extend out, so you can shoo the dog away with it. I haven't tried that yet. I will shortly however.

I've noticed that he's a lot more aggressive towards other dogs when he's safely inside the house, lol. When he sees dogs walking past from the front window, he'll bark, growl and jump up to get a better look. But when we're actually out walking, he just stiffens and growls. Even so, I'm finding it very hard to get him to focus in either case. Is it better to take him deliberately to places with other dogs around, so that we can work on confronting this problem, or to choose routes that avoid other dogs and hope that he grows out of it?

We also have a small petting zoo in the centre of our village; when I took him there he would poke his nose through the fence and sniff the goats, who came to sniff him too, without any aggression. But here too he was completely unaware of my existence - didn't respond to a single command or even to his name. It seems that other animals are just too much of a distraction for him. What to do?

Any progress? My dog does the same thing.

 Quote: Arik Kershenbaum

But here too he was completely unaware of my existence - didn't respond to a single command or even to his name. It seems that other animals are just too much of a distraction for him. What to do?

Sounds like you might be allowing the dog to get too far along in his staring before correcting.

Also, and I apologize if this is just too obvious, but have you done obedience work with him to the point of proofing against distraction, including other dogs?

 Quote: connie sutherland

Sounds like you might be allowing the dog to get too far along in his staring before correcting.

Also, and I apologize if this is just too obvious, but have you done obedience work with him to the point of proofing against distraction, including other dogs?

No, don't appologise; this is my first dog, and nothing is obvious

We've only had him a month, and although he seems to my inexperienced eye to have learnt very quickly, he's still far from being reliable under distractions. I do notice quite a bit of progress there, but it's slow going. We working on obedience under distractions quite apart from dealing with the dog-on-dog issue.

When other dogs come up while we're walking, I keep going, and if he stops, I correct. These days, that first correction works maybe 50% of the time; if it does, we keep walking and he gets lots of praise. If not, I give a second correction and if that doesn't work, I give a heartbreaking tug (according to what I read in Ed's ebook - tell me I'm doing the right thing!! ) and pull him off his feet. Usually he comes along at that point. Anyway, I don't let him sit and stare. If he's being really stubborn, and is trying to twist his head out of the collar, I don't try and move on, but "sit" him and give him continuous "stay" commands, while stroking him and praising him for being quiet and relaxed. That seems to calm him down, and after a moment we can continue walking.

Arik, if he's trying to twist his head out of the collar, I'm imagining you're using a flat collar? If so, you may want to use a prong collar, which he can't get out of, but for safety's sake you should attach a dominant dog collar at the same time. The prong will give you much more control than a flat collar.

Here's the regular prong collar (can be a bit tough to get on): http://www.leerburg.com/prong.htm#819
Here's the quick release prong collar, which is what I use (easy to get on and off): http://www.leerburg.com/prong.htm#quick

The dominant dog collar: http://www.leerburg.com/746.htm

Here's the main page for the prong collars with articles you should read that will tell you why it's good to use a prong, how to fit a prong, talks about the dominant dog collar as a backup to the prong, etc. Do read the articles, I believe you'll be convinced that the prong is indeed as Ed Frawley puts it, "power steering for dogs".
http://www.leerburg.com/prong.htm

I think that from reading the articles on that page that you'll be able to see whether the prong is a good choice for your dog. Just note that it is not inhumane and with it you probably won't ever have to give that "heartbreaking tug" with a flat collar.

I could be wrong but it doesn't sound like Darwin is particularly aggressive toward dogs (on walks), just overly attentive, which could turn into aggression if left uncorrected. In the house you said he shows aggression toward dogs on the outside - that could be because he's territorial.

Do not use a prong!

Mike, suggest a collar please. It seems Arik is using a flat. Is that good enough? The reason I suggested a prong is because it doesn't seem his dog is truly aggressive and suggested it as a means to keep the dog walking with him rather than stopping and staring.

Flat collar or DD collar. The dog is not aggressive to the dogs YET. A prong will give the dog a reason to become aggressive. "Whenever I see this other dog, I feel pain."

Using a prong here would work but only if the timing is precise and you are correcting for breaking obedience. The dog MUST understand 100% that he is being corrected for not listening to a heel command. If the dog thinks that the correction is related to the other dog then you'll create an aggression problem where there might not really be one yet.

This is a socialization issue. Take the dog places where you can play with him and do fun things at a distance where other dogs are around, but unable to get to him. Start at a distance where he isn't fixated on the dog and gradually work your way closer over a period of a few weeks.