We've been having a problem with our labrador lately. Normally we play ball with a nice Kong ball. He's great with it and when we tell him to "drop it" he does. Unfortunately the ball does not float (he's a spaz playing fetch on land but is absolutely fanatical about fetching in the water so we try to do that as much as possible). It also is rather heavy and my sissy girly arms can't throw it that far =P

So last week I went and got a Chuckit and some ("dog safe") tennis balls. Now I can throw twice as far, but something has changed about his behavior. He's becoming really possessive about the tennis ball to the point where he won't even bring it back and if he does he simply will not drop it. I can hold the stinkiest, tastiest treat in front of his nose and it makes no difference. I can try and trade for another tennis ball, it doesn't matter. He doesn't get aggressive about it, which is good because frequently I'm forced to rip the ball out of his mouth. We tried with the red Kong ball again with no problem.

Because I believe he knows what "drop it" means, should I be using corrections on the prong when he won't give it up? Regular flat collar corrections don't even phase him when he gets into "the zone." Normally a stern tone will send him to the floor.

Is it about him not seeing the ball as mine? All the balls are stored away in the closet after play. Or is this something deeper in the pack relationship that I'm not aware of? This isn't a real dramatic situation that needs to be fixed, like I said he's not growling or stiffening or showing any changes in posture, but I really don't want it to go that far.

Another thing I feel I should mention is that sometimes when he fetches the ball, he starts trotting away toward the house with the ball in his mouth. At that point I catch him, grab him and bring him back to where we were. Then I get the ball out of his mouth and THEN we go inside. Is this the right thing to do?

Because I believe he knows what "drop it" means, should I be using corrections on the prong when he won't give it up? Regular flat collar corrections don't even phase him when he gets into "the zone." Normally a stern tone will send him to the

He knew what "drop it" meant until what he was doing meant more to him than the command or the minor compulsion used, to enforce that command. The only thing left is to do make the price for the dog, when he holds the ball after being told to drop it, higher than the pleasure he gets by holding it. When you watch those field trials on TV why do you think those Lab's quickly turn around at the sound of their handlers whistle. I can tell you it wasn't because of a hot dog or a good boy. Can you say e-collar. The dogs soon learned that turning around at the sound of a whistle was better than the price they would pay if they kept going.

Chaining the fetch command is a lot more successful than, as Bob Scott puts it, "throwing the ball and hoping for the best."

So I would probably back way up and train the release of the ball into my hand, completely separate from the fetch activity, even practicing indoors. THEN combine the parts (the chain) of the command.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Chaining the fetch command is a lot more successful than, as Bob Scott puts it, "throwing the ball and hoping for the best."

So I would probably back way up and train the release of the ball into my hand, completely separate from the fetch activity, even practicing indoors. THEN combine the parts (the chain) of the command.

How do I train the release of the ball? I swear, once he gets his mouth on that ball he gets this look in his eyes and he's long gone

 Quote: ashley hiebing

How do I train the release of the ball? I swear, once he gets his mouth on that ball he gets this look in his eyes and he's long gone

First, to me the "give" command to a pet (as when playing fetch) is not the same as drop it. Drop it is DROP IT NOW, RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE. Giving me back the ball is a different thing entirely.

So about giving me back the ball.... I don't train that in conjunction with the tossing and running parts.... as you say, there is too much excitement and running around.

http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/activities/obedience.html#backchaining

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=15&Number=169911&Searchpage=1&Main=17457&Words=fetch+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post169911

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=15&Number=159072&Searchpage=1&Main=16606&Words=fetch+Connie+Sutherland&topic=0&Search=true#Post159072

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/104026/page/1#Post104026


You can (and probably should) teach "give" or whatever you want to call it (consistently) indoors, or in a small area outdoors. It doesn't involve long tosses and running and wild excitement.

All JMO.

Ashley, I might be able to answer the WHY.

The tennis ball, to your dog, is a much higher value toy than the kong ball. It is like the difference in treat values, like a piece of kibble vs a piece of raw steak.

I have a female that is not toy possessive with the other dogs EXCEPT when she has a tennis ball. That is the only thing she would start a fight over. I manage it by not owning tennis balls, and she is fine.

So your dog just likes the tennis ball better than the kong toy, better than treats, and better than listening to you.

I am glad you asked this question because I have a pup that loves to run off with things.

 Quote: ashley hiebing

Because I believe he knows what "drop it" means, should I be using corrections on the prong when he won't give it up? Regular flat collar corrections don't even phase him when he gets into "the zone." Normally a stern tone will send him to the floor.

Sounds like he knows what drop it means with the kong ball, but does not understand with the new ball. Does he even try to "drop" the ball, or does he give you the blank stare look like he has no idea what you are talking about?

I would start with the dog on a long line and hand tossing the ball, with the mindset to work on the "drop it", "give", "out" or whatever you are going to use.
I would continue to use the kong ball as something to wear him out until you have him giving you the tennis ball.

Having to run and grab the dog and force the ball from him is probably making it worse. When my dogs and I play fetch (especially teaching the game to a pup or a dog that has issues with the out), and they return, I usually pet them first and tell them "good bring" and then have them "out". This shows them that I am not going to call them to me and take the toy away immediately (which will allow them to mouth, spit it out and then try to grab it again) and I do allow them to carry the toy back to the house or vehicle and then I ask them to "out" before entering.

Is this the older lab in the photo? What is the age of the dog?

 Quote: carol boche

 Quote: ashley hiebing

Because I believe he knows what "drop it" means, should I be using corrections on the prong when he won't give it up? Regular flat collar corrections don't even phase him when he gets into "the zone." Normally a stern tone will send him to the floor.

Sounds like he knows what drop it means with the kong ball, but does not understand with the new ball. Does he even try to "drop" the ball, or does he give you the blank stare look like he has no idea what you are talking about?

I would start with the dog on a long line and hand tossing the ball, with the mindset to work on the "drop it", "give", "out" or whatever you are going to use.
I would continue to use the kong ball as something to wear him out until you have him giving you the tennis ball.

Having to run and grab the dog and force the ball from him is probably making it worse. When my dogs and I play fetch (especially teaching the game to a pup or a dog that has issues with the out), and they return, I usually pet them first and tell them "good bring" and then have them "out". This shows them that I am not going to call them to me and take the toy away immediately (which will allow them to mouth, spit it out and then try to grab it again) and I do allow them to carry the toy back to the house or vehicle and then I ask them to "out" before entering.

Is this the older lab in the photo? What is the age of the dog?

When he gets the ball he's a big tease about it, prancing around me and throwing his head back, chomping on the ball. I may be anthropomorphizing, but that's what it looks like to me. =)

Yeah, he's my only dog. The shelter we got him from thinks he's around 7, but he doesn't act like it.

He "teases" you with the new ball and not the kong...right?

I would do the long line thing.

Our lab tried that with tennis balls and it took Doug about 15 minutes with the long line, low level stim and raw hamburger to end that. (it took him an hour to not be pissed enough at Marley to go out and do that though)

Nothing worse than a taunting dog to make you realize there is an issue that needs to be worked on....