I have been working on the recall command, Come, using the e collar. I've watched the Leerburg video on e collar training several times and I am trying to implement the Leerburg methods. I have been working on increasing distractions. When I see that Willie is distracted I give the Come command - if he starts toward me I say YES and when he arrives he gets lots of praise and a treat. If he ignores the Come command (given only once) I say NO, if he turns and comes I say YES and when he arrives he gets lots of praise and a treat. If he refuses after NO he get a nick (promptly - 1 second - 1.5 seconds after the no). If he responds then he gets a YES and Tons of praise and a treat. If he refuses - this is very rare - I sometimes say NO again or sometimes I give the Come command again and go through the same sequence. Willie responds very well in general. BUT - I am beginning to notice that he is blowing me off on the Come command and waits until he hears the NO before responding - I think he realizes that he has a moment to wait before he is going to be stimulated. I wonder if I should start giving him a nick at the exact same moment that I say NO rather than waiting as I understand Ed recommends in his video. Or maybe I misunderstood.

Also, issue number 2 for me is this - When you go through the sequence and you get a refusal after a NO and a Nick - do you repeat the Come command at that point - or do you repeat the No - Nick sequence again until the dog responds? I think Ed does it both ways in the video and I'm not sure how to decide which approach to follow in a given situation. Willie is a fairly sensitive and affectionate Golden Retriever - with a lot of pride and a bit of a stubborn streak. He learns quickly and he has been doing really well with this collar training - I'm really talking about refining things a little bit. I'm determined to get him to the point that he has a 100% rock solid recall. We are very close to that goal already after less than a week.

Hi Robert,
I encountered the same problem using the e-collar to teach the recall - Dillon soon figured out that "no'' was a warning that he was about to get nicked, and so he started to ignore "come" and wait for "no". I was sure he knew perfectly well what "come" meant by that stage, so I stopped saying "no" - if he didn't respond to "come" immediately I nicked him and repeated "come", with praise the moment he started back towards me. This rapidly solved the problem - I still can't think of another way, but maybe someone else out there has insights?

Yea, that is exactly what Willie is doing. I think I will start nicking him and saying "No" simultaneously.

Hi Robert,
Thinking about this, I realized that when working with Dillon on a long-distance recall in response to the pager beep on the e-collar, he never tried the "I'll come in a couple of seconds when I'm done sniffing this" routine because he was too far away for me to give him a warning verbal "no" - it was beep, then immediate nick if he failed to respond within a second or two. I think - like you are finding with Willie - smart dogs work out that it's the "no" or the beep that has immediate consequences if they blow it off, not the "come".

Keep us posted on progress!

Hi Guys;
I don't want to sound bitchy, but one of my pet peeves is the comment that dogs are "blowing us off". It sets a terrible tone
in our human minds and I think it affects how we look at our dogs.
When our dogs ignore a command, they either do not understand the command under those conditions or the drive they are in is not allowing them to focus on us. They just don't flip us the furry finger.
Let's focus on how to be more clear on what we want, using body language to help, training under lots of conditions and then progressing thru the phases of dog training.
OK< I feel better now, lolololo
Happy Training,
Roni

Roni,

I don't think you were bitchy at all ......I have always used the term "giving me the finger" but your explanation makes TOTAL sense to me.

 Quote:

the drive they are in is not allowing them to focus on us.

This is where I've probably though I was getting blown off. I think that as I get better at training it proves your point more and more.

COOOLLLLL

 Quote: roni hoff

When our dogs ignore a command, they either do not understand the command under those conditions or the drive they are in is not allowing them to focus on us. They just don't flip us the furry finger.

Roni...I don't mean to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if you could clarify something for me. I totally agree with you that when a handler is working their dog your statement applies. As in Randy's signature line, "If my dog's not learning, I'm doing something wrong."

However, it seems to me that some dogs will do the "middle finger" thing to people who are not their handlers. For example, my GSD will ignore commands from my husband (so will my son, actually! )...commands that are certainly known by Carbon and given when he's not in drive, and ones that I get a quick and very reliable response for.

Do you think that he's honestly not getting it from my husband or do you think (as I have thought) that he just knows he does not need to comply with my husband (my husband is NOT a trainer--not even a little bit!).

And also, I thought I had read an article that Ed wrote (I could be wrong) that said that it's not uncommon for dogs of a certain age to test their boundaries and see if they can ignore a previously learned command. Of course, I'm paraphrasing here..but I'd just like to know your thoughts on that theory. I'm curious as to whether or not I misinterpreted or misread this.

Again, sorry for the hijack! Please feel free to PM me if you'd like.

"If *I'm* not learning, *I'm* doing something wrong!

In addition to what Roni said, dogs respond to leadership.
Ignoring other people, even if in your own family, is about leadership, not because they are blowing them off!
A stubborn dog is a confused dog or a dog that lacks leadership. JMHO!