 Big Problem
#190238 - 04/13/2008 03:47 PM |
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ok, here it goes. I thought i was doing everything right when I bought my GSD
from this breeder. I researched and checked there credentials but i screwed up
and i blame myself. Before i got this pup i knew i wanted to do some Shutzhund work with him and kinda of have a family pet as well, so i didnt want to go hardcore
and get a strickly working line and got a German GSD Showline. Here is the problem
i have a contract with the breeder to have this dog neutered by 8 months and they hold the registration until this happens. They will do co-ownership but i hear this is messy. It is also stated in the contract if he is not neutered they can retain possesion of the dog. I belong to a Shutzhund club and they feel it to be pretty important not to neuter dog. I knew i was going to make mistakes with my first GSD dog but damn not this early, whats important for me it to work this dog and gain some knowledge and have some fun, but i feel i have already taken 2 steps back
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190250 - 04/13/2008 04:51 PM |
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If you told your breeder that you wanted a dog to do Shutzhund work and IF it is common and customary that males dogs not be neutered than it may well be the breeders fault for not disclosing that information.
I say that from a legal perspective, I have not a clue about dog politics. look at your contract and have a lawyer examine it.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Jeff Cambeis ]
#190256 - 04/13/2008 05:20 PM |
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my wife works for a law firm, but i hate to go down that road. I heard that the AKC
will not permit breeders to hold registration for any reason even if it is in the contract, The blame is really on myself , but i feel a little upset that the breeder wont work with me on giving me a standard no breed contract.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190264 - 04/13/2008 05:42 PM |
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Jeff...try negotiating with the breeder for an AKC Limited Registration Certificate. That way your dog can be registered with the AKC, but the certificate will specifically say "Offspring of the Dog Not Eligible for Registration".
This should satisfy your need for keeping an in-tact male for Schutzhund and the breeder's desire that you don't use the dog for stud. It could be a real easy win-win. And if it was my dog I definitely would not go the "co-ownership" route.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Marj Remland ]
#190272 - 04/13/2008 06:20 PM |
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Whoops...sorry...that post should be directed to James...read and typed too fast.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Marj Remland ]
#190304 - 04/13/2008 10:10 PM |
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What can go wring with the co-ownership if there is no planned breeding? It is just on paper, not likely to come into play or will it?
How often do breeders try to inforce the contracts? Most seemed poorly written when I looked into breeders.
My brother is a lawyer and was not impressed with my contract from the breeder. Said it would be hard to enforce? Not that he has experience with dogs and he is a criminal lawyer not contract law.
Michelle
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Michelle Berdusco ]
#190376 - 04/14/2008 02:59 PM |
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To my way of thinking there are just too many "ifs" and intangibles to even consider signing a co-owner agreement for a dog. Not something I would feel comfortable with and certainly not something I would recommend to someone else.
Maybe if you are the breeder it is advantageous but surely something that I would not do.
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Marj Remland ]
#190382 - 04/14/2008 03:29 PM |
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It's your dog, you paid for it and should have received the papers for the dog when you got the puppy. It is a rule with AKC - the breeder cannot hold the papers on a puppy that is sold, paid for and transferred, unless there is a co-ownership. The breeder cannot force you to neuter YOUR dog, and he cannot take YOUR dog back - that would be stealing if he tried to do it. The only thing he could do is take you to court and try to get the dog back using the signed contract, however IMO the contract would not stand up in court because YOU own the dog, you paid for him and he's yours.
Tell the breeder to sign over your dogs' papers to you, with limited registration if he wants to maintain that the dog must not be bred. If he doesn't, then report him to AKC, and if necessary take HIM to court to get your papers for YOUR dog. Good luck.
molly
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: james bottle ]
#190384 - 04/14/2008 03:42 PM |
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Mr. Bottle,
The following is a quote from the AKC web page having to do with 'contracts' in the section 'Registering a Dog:'
"Many AKC-registrable dogs are bred, sold, or transferred on the basis of certain conditions, restrictions, or understood agreements between the interested parties. Some breeders sell their puppies on Spay-Neuter Contracts, which require that the dog be spayed or neutered by a certain age. Others enter into co-ownership contracts with new owners or into Stud Contracts with the owner of a male dog. Some dogs are sold with the agreement that they will be shown to a certain level of achievement in AKC events.
The AKC does not and cannot enter into arbitration when an understanding between buyers, sellers, or co-owners goes wrong. The AKC will abide by the decision of the court if the case is litigated. We advise that all contracts be thoroughly examined and understood before the transaction is completed. For more information, see our Procedures for Registration Matters."
Just another tid-bit of info.
Mike A.
"I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne |
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Re: Big Problem
[Re: Mike Arnold ]
#190393 - 04/14/2008 04:47 PM |
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Step one is to call and speak with the breeder. Most breeders are sane, reasonable people who if entered into a contract under good faith are willing to work with you. Simply ask if it's ok with them that you wait until (blank age) to have the dog fixed or have them fill in the box for limited reg. Most breeders are satisfied with that.
If it starts to get hairy call it a "stupid tax", learning experience, etc and have the dog fixed since you did agree to that when you got the dog. The breeder is satisfied and the contract is complete. Your dog should still be trainable for what you want it for and you already mentioned you didn't want to get into this "hard core" so no huge loss.
I agree with the no co-ownership policy. I as a beginner would never ever suggest it for anyone since it gives way too much control over a dog to someone you don't know all that well.
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