Hi list, My son has picked a boxer male puppy for his first dog. My son is 27 yrs. old, happily married, with a two year old son. The puppy was at his house at six weeks old. I was hoping the breeder would keep it until 8 to 10 wks old, so the pup could learn some bite inhibition when playing with litter mates. I have the pup at my house as my son had to leave the state for three days. This pup is a handful. Very active,,and not very respectful of my adult rottwielers. He is showing very dominant attitudes and is pushy. Finally, two of my females corrected him when he wouldn't leave them alone, their nip hardly daunted him. I've begun redirecting his biting by making a loud grunting sound when he is mouthing me, and immediately redirecting him to one of the many toys available. I've also held him on his back until he stops fighting, and then letting him up. I don't think any of this handling has been done with him. My question, when holding the pup on his back, he's trying to bite, is kicking and growling, I have been releasing him as soon as he freezes for a few seconds. He is still tense, but not attmepting to escape. Is this the proper time for release, or should I wait until he is somewhat relaxed? I don't forsee him relaxing very soon. When I let him up, his little heart is racing, and he jumps up to make a run at me, mouthing and barking. Am I doing this exercise wrong? He is 7.5 weeks old. Susan

Susan,

Check out the Post by Lou Castle in this Thread on nipping. It seems to have worked well for many people (but not with my mouthy little cuss).

Thanks Richard, that has some very good information and will be very helpful. Do you have some insight on the restraint training, (ie, holding dog on it's back till it stops fighting)? This would not be done as a result of a correction, only an exercise, done, maybe two or three times a day, until there is relaxation. My rottie pups did not protest as hard or as long as this pup , but they were not removed from their litter mates too soon, as this boxer was. Susan

My pup was the same even if she was with the breeder past 8 weeks. I tried everything but found out that distractions worked the best(like calling her, asking to sit and giving a piece of food). She is 7 months old now and must be very very excited to nip and bite, and even then it does not last long, so I think patience is the best medicine <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Susan,

I wouldn't be a fan of the type of training you are talking about. It would really serve no purpose. It creates a direct conflict between you and the dog, with no good out for the dog (or you for that matter). The sole purpose would be to dominate the pup into submission. There are limits as to how long that can work, and it really doesn't teach the dog to work with you but to fight you until it realizes it can't win. Teaching obedience will provide the same lesson of submitting to your requirements, without creating a direct conflict. It teaches the dog that there are things he can do to get in your good graces. The other point is that you can use the obedience to assert your authority through obedience forever.

I agree with Rich. This is a puppy and the idea is to teach him to respect you and submit to you not to fight him into submission. I too would not use that training method.

I was under the impression that this was a common exercise with puppies, teaching them to relax if restrained, being it holding them on your lap or on the floor, just till they stop trying to bite, or push you off. I did it with my rotties and it was done in preparation for working on nails. Just teaching them to be comfortable with the position. I've also attended puppy classes that did that same exercise,,,in a group. All of us sitting with the dogs on the ground, rolling them over and getting them used to being familiar with this position, without anything negative happening. It's not done for domination, because it's is not an exercise done as a correction. It's true they don't like it at first, but I think it may help them adjust to other situations in the future that they may not be happy about, but have had experience in finding out it's not so bad after all. A puppy that has not been restrained in this manner ever, by anything, may think he's not going stand for that, and when and if you do have to put him on his back, there will be a big to do over that. If you think this type of handling is too damaging to a dog's attitude, I will avoid it, however it seemed to be quite a positive experience for my rotts after the initial confrontation. Susan

I've done this before to test the level of submission in a pup but not as a training "technique".

If I can expand on what I just said(about testing level of submission), sometimes I wonder if doing that is a real indication of anything or if it just scares the shit out of the pup. Just food for thought, something I've wondered about before. Back on topic we go. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The place I have a problem with this is when you say "I've also held him on his back until he stops fighting, and then letting him up." That is domination, not teaching a position. If you want the pup to hold still for nails, or whatever, do it by teaching a stay command. Get the pup used to having it's feet messed with.

My point here is that the method used is domination. That is why you hold the position until they stop struggling. If you taught the position the same way as taught other obedience positions and slowly build up the time the pup holds the position that would be a different matter. We teach the dogs to do a "dead dog" to allow ofr an exam of their belly. We do their feet in the sit or down position.

Again with a pup if you can teach them to work with you to a common goal you are way ahead. The obedience teachs that they must submit to your wishes, without having to force the pup into an uncomfortable position.