ted efthymiadis wrote 04/17/2008 01:53 PM Growling... #191025 - 04/17/2008 01:53 PM
ted efthymiadis Webboard User Reg: 03-02-2007 Posts: 278 Loc: Offline	I have a blind friend who has a 7 year old female GSD. The dog is very protective (or most would think), more times then not, when a stranger approaches my friend and his dog, the dog will growl. My friend wants the dog to growl on command. Because I don't know much about defense work, I was hoping to get your thoughts on this. Since the dog is already growling about 60% of the time, I told my friend to praise the dog as the dog growls at strangers. And over time add a command, like "watch him" Through association the dog will start to growl when faced with a stranger, and given the watch him command. Is this correct, or just in my head? thanks -ted
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steve strom wrote 04/17/2008 02:36 PM Re: Growling... [Re: ted efthymiadis ] #191039 - 04/17/2008 02:36 PM
steve strom Webboard User Reg: 03-17-2006 Posts: 4203 Loc: Offline	How will he know who to have the dog growl at?
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randy allen wrote 04/17/2008 07:22 PM Re: Growling... [Re: steve strom ] #191077 - 04/17/2008 07:22 PM
randy allen Webboard User Reg: 08-30-2007 Posts: 3283 Loc: Offline	60% of the people the dog meets are threats? Sounds like a law suit in the brewing stage to me. If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong. Randy
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Connie Sutherland wrote 04/17/2008 07:23 PM Re: Growling... [Re: randy allen ] #191078 - 04/17/2008 07:23 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Ted, it sounds like *very* bad advice to me too.
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Roni Hoff wrote 04/17/2008 08:40 PM Re: Growling... [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #191083 - 04/17/2008 08:40 PM
Roni Hoff Moderator Reg: 02-24-2002 Posts: 256 Loc: Offline	This is an accident waiting to happen. The dog is not growling out of confidence, and the growl is warning people to not approach. The next step is a bite. Ted, do you want to be responsible for the dog biting someone, perhaps a kid in the face. Please, please, unless you know what you are doing, don't give advice,,,,,,,,,,this is way too dangerous. This man needs to work with a professional. The dog is not acting appropriately!
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Will Rambeau wrote 04/18/2008 12:02 AM Re: Growling... [Re: ted efthymiadis ] #191123 - 04/18/2008 12:02 AM
Will Rambeau Moderator Reg: 01-25-2003 Posts: 5983 Loc: Idaho Offline	If the handler is actually blind, he has to completely trust that the dog will correctly interpet the possible threat that any stranger may pose - which of course is such a totally bad idea that it shouldn't be considered by *ANYONE*, ever. Bad, bad, idea. Please clue your friend into the reality of just how poorly thought out this idea was. Or he can continue with this type of training and make some attorney happy and rich, eventually. The Fetz dog: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/79673/page/25
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ted efthymiadis wrote 04/18/2008 08:28 AM Re: Growling... [Re: Will Rambeau ] #191145 - 04/18/2008 08:28 AM
ted efthymiadis Webboard User Reg: 03-02-2007 Posts: 278 Loc: Offline	OK thanks for the advice, but i think you all read wrong, or I didn't clearly define the situation. So here is where I think we got our lines mixed up. I never said anything about biting, in my opinion growling does not mean the dog is going to bite, when I met this man a while ago, his bitch growled at me and as I shook his hand the dog was stable and I didn't get bite. His bitch is always on lead, on his left side. The bitch has never bite, so she has no bitework training, or random stray bites. All he wants the dog to do is growl on command, not to bite.
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Guest1 wrote 04/18/2008 08:37 AM Re: Growling... [Re: ted efthymiadis ] #191147 - 04/18/2008 08:37 AM
Guest1 Webboard User Reg: 07-17-2002 Posts: 860 Loc: Iowa Offline	What a strange question. What I think you're talking about is classical conditioning...? Ring bell, give food. Ring bell, dog drools. Is your assumption that the dog will growl but not really "mean" it"? That it's just a conditioned response for which he experiences no visceral emotion? I can't imagine a dog ever growling without actually experiencing the basic emotion which goes along with it. Pavlovs dog really does expect food and experiences anticipation and hunger. Your dog in question is feeling genuine defensiveness as much as Pavlov's dog experienced hunger and anticipation along with the drooling. The drooling didn't exist in a vaccuum. The growl implies genuine emotion, and the dog can't fake that. It's the emotion which can precede a bite, you're toying with. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Amber Morgan wrote 04/18/2008 08:39 AM Re: Growling... [Re: Roni Hoff ] #191148 - 04/18/2008 08:39 AM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Quote: ted efthymiadis All he wants the dog to do is growl on command, not to bite. That's what he *wants* but I that might not be what he *gets*:  Quote: Roni Hoff The dog is not growling out of confidence, and the growl is warning people to not approach. The next step is a bite. Carbon
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Cindy Easton Rhodes wrote 04/18/2008 08:40 AM Re: Growling... [Re: ted efthymiadis ] #191149 - 04/18/2008 08:40 AM
Cindy Easton Rhodes Moderator Reg: 07-14-2001 Posts: 2069 Loc: Wisconsin Offline	A growl is a warning to a bite. be aware that just beccause your friend's dog has never been trained in bitework doesn't mean the dog is not capable of biting. Most dog bite cases involve dogs who have never had one minute of bite training. I would agree with everyone on this thread, your friend needs help from a professional. Cindy cindyr@leerburg.com
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