Looking for advice and/or confirmation of my thoughts.

3 yr old GSD is not food motivated at all. She will take food, but it is more of a courtesy or normal pack behavior in trying to get the food before someone else does. We have other dogs who will climb over each other for a simple biscut so I have seen what a high food drive is LOL. Have tried multiple things when out of the kitchen where she is somewhat food motivated, but outside she has no interest at all in food.

She is highly motivated by a toy and will let out the high pitched barks of excitement. My thought is to use this as a motivator since it really seems to work. Did order the Building Drive & Focus and should get it on Friday.

Problem (if it is one) is that she seems almost too excited and it is hard to work on "precision". I have only just recently begun working with her this way, so it may be too early to tell. My wife has competed in AKC obedience before and have attended a couple of the events. I know Schutzhund is different from the precision standpoint than AKC, so I don't think this may be too much of an issue.

Have made some huge gains recently with her, but am new to this so any help is appreciate.

Thanks!

This should not be too much of an issue for the two of you. That ball drive is highly desirable in a SCH prospect. Having it naturally is such a big help for you, 'cause bringing prey drive it out of a dog is really (really) hard. You have the first couple of steps of the pyramid in place.

When working in OB, it will give you the extra "oomph" that you need to give that focused precision that is pointed in both AKC and SCH. What you will learn by watching the DVD will be how to take that drive, turn it in to focus, and to reward and release the dog with the grip . How to bottle up that excited energy into a beautiful focus.

I like to use food to train the position, but it is the prey drive that really takes the show very quickly. With a non-food-driven dog, I would just use what I have.

Thanks for the advice. Just got the video today! Can't wait to watch it. She definitely has a lot of energy that wears me out before she does. She will run until she drops, and would like to focus some of that energy into something positive.

Thanks again,
Dave

Hi David, please post about your experiences w/ the exercises on the video. I will be ordering w/in the next cople of weeks and am interested in hearing what you think about it...

I prefer ball or tug or other toy for obedience than food. Food I use for younger puppies if I have to.

The focus and precision comes when the dog understands the "game."

The building drive & focus DVD will help explain alot on how to ranslate the drive for a toy into obedience. Pointless to write it on a forum when you will have the video soon.

David;
In order to get precision in obedience, it is much easier for you and certainly a high drive dog to use food. I have worked with dogs that have absolutely no food drive. First, we have to teach this type of dog that they can work for food. I make sure that the dog is hungry, this means he might have to miss more than one meal or cut rations for an amount of time. I then cook
wonderful steak, chicken, get cheese, anything that I can think of to turn the dog on. Think out of the box here.
High prey drive does not allow the dog to think, and they need to think in the learning phase or you have to correct them all the time and that just does not foster the type of relationship that I want nor create the long term career that I want for my dog. Prey drive then is brought in after the precision on the task has occured. Let me know how your food test goes. It's fun and it will teach you some things about your dog. Happy Training!!

Lynn, just got the video and am working on this. Will let you know how things progress. The video is broken down into multiple segments and is explained in detail anyone can understand. Lots of great content. What I thought was "drive" really wasn't. Will take probably a couple of weeks to get through the first step...building drive. One thing I did notice right away is that in the past when she was let out (BTW she is a little OCD lol) she ran in circles over and over. Now she runs out and stands and waits for me to come out with the toy. Haven't worked this too much with her yet, but she really loves it.

Mike, with Sasha, toys definitely do work better for her, especially when she is out in the back or away from home. Like anything, this does take work.

Roni, you bring up an interesting point about the high prey drive and not being able to focus. For the couple of commands that we were working on with the toy, she was taught the commands with food (sit, down). She is definitely more excited about doing them for a toy as opposed to food. I wonder what other experiences people have had? I know every dog is different and you need to fit the training to the dog. Has anyone else been successful in teaching new commands with a toy instead of food (i.e. learning stage)?

I agree with Roni. With food you can teach precision by rewarding the moment the dog give you want you want. The problem with using toys with a young dog is you have to then get it away from them and in doing so you lose the continuity in your training. Moreover if the dog has extreme toy drive IMO it makes them to crazy to learn. Here are a few links of my training a GSD pup with food.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY-NvNJ7qJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eaveymXzU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilciVSKCO_M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpqAStDsYuY

Norman, Thanks for the links. Looks like you have really been doing some great work!

I agree training with food is by far easier and better. Sasha is 3 years old and has never been food motivated, even as a pup. We have other dogs that are, so I definitely know the difference. She was a real finicky eater until about a year ago. I agree that food will give you more precision and is alot easier. But what to do when they have no interest in food? She does have a ton of energy (too much at times), so the thought of using a toy fits her. Haven't had this issue before, so looking for any input.

Hi David;
First, I manipulate food drive by making the dog really hungry.
I mean really hungry. I cut the ration of normal food in half and then no food the day that I start wanting to use food. I use something that would make YOUR mouth water, lololo. Suggestions would be garlic laced steak, chicken, string cheese, pot roast.
I cut this into pieces that I can squeeze in my fingers with just a little hanging out and let the dog try it. Once he likes what I am giving him I then teach him to work for the food by nursing it from my fingers. This makes the food more valuable.
I have also put a hunk of meat or string cheese on a horse lunge whip and used it just like a rag to really make the dog crazy.
Just a few ideas to try,. I love thinking out of the box.
Happy Training!