My 10 1/2 week old GS puppy is very hyper and full of drive as I've previously mentioned. He's pulling on his leash very hard at times when he wants something. I will not jerk the leash at his age, so I decided to use an approach I used on my show horses.

1. When they got spooked or were too hyper, we simply stopped - sometimes for 15 minutes - did not move and they eventually calmed down. I did this with Gus (puppy) this morning and after a few minutes, he stopped pulling and looked up for a cue!!

2. When my mare would not make a smooth transition from a walk into a lope, I would stop her for a couple of seconds and do it again, and again, and again until she got tired of the repetition and would then make the transition correctly.

This morning after a truck ride, Gus was on a leash and was pulling extremely hard as we walked to the door to go inside. So, for a few minutes we turned around, back and forth, and basically walked in a short circle. After a while, he got tired of it and looked up for a cue!!

I don't know enough yet to form a solid opinion on what my approach to dog training will be. However, I know you can't win by trying to muscle a 1,500 pound horse - you have to get into their mind - you have to understand how to communicate with them. Seems to me that's what I tried to do this morning without risk of harming this pup.

Thought I would pass this along for what it's worth.

Doyle

If all you want is a calm pet, this may work fine.

Most working dog trainers prefer to harnass or use the dogs drive rather than teach the dog to resist it.

You may consider directing the energy INTO something like chasing a ball so that you can use this later to motivate / reward hard work.

Thanks for your suggestion - using the dog's drive constructively.

Question - it's unclear to me; however, that I was teaching him to resist drive. Rather, it seemed to me he was so hyper, or perhaps focused on something other than me, that he was ignoring my cues. That being the case, I tried to bring him back to a state of mind that he could, again, concentrate on me and be ready to use his drive constructively, e.g., chase a ball as you suggest. Clearly, when he is not quite so hyper, he watches me very closely.

Based on the little I've learned so far, it would seem that undisciplined (unfocused) drive is counterproductive; thus, one would want to bring the dog back to a level of calm so that it was concentrating on the handler.

I would appreciate your further thoughts.

Doyle

I thought your solution of standing still and waiting for an instant of attention was ideal. With repetition, the pup will learn that giving attention/eye contact brings him the quickest results and gets him what he wants (assuming that you follow thru and engage him in a reinforcing activity like play). Carry this over to other areas besides walking on the leash - like giving him his meals. He has to stop for an instant and give focused attention and BAM he gets his dinner, or gets to go outside, or whatever. You're not going to get long-lasting calmness, like you might have expected from a horse, cuz he is just a rowdy puppy, but you can expect and get a moment of focused attention in order to earn what he wants.

i trained horses for many years before training dogs. a lot of the theory parts of training can carry over, but not all.
the walking in a small circle/square/back and forth on a straight line is classic for teaching a dog to stay with you.
i don't think it would hurt the drive unless the dog was chasing a ball and you stopped him half way there. but if you're just walking towards the house, the dog should have mannersand walk with you.
but with a pup this age,
1. make sure you are worth focusing on. play with him, pet him, feed him. the goofier you get, the more he'll enjoy it.
2. don't expect him to maintain focus for more than a second or two. then as he gets older you can increase that slowly.

I guess the question would be...what do you do when the pup looks up at you? Ok... if you wait it out, the pup will learn that nothing good will happen while it is acting hyper... so it learns to calm down and look at you... now what?

The dog learns that going into drive (being hyper and emotional) will not be rewarded... and apparently being calm is rewarded. Why is calm good?

If the dog stops and looks to you and then gets rewarded with a toy, ball etc... and gets to play... that sounds reasonable.

 Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Lilley:
I guess the question would be...what do you do when the pup looks up at you? Ok... if you wait it out, the pup will learn that nothing good will happen while it is acting hyper... so it learns to calm down and look at you... now what?

The dog learns that going into drive (being hyper and emotional) will not be rewarded... and apparently being calm is rewarded. Why is calm good?

If the dog stops and looks to you and then gets rewarded with a toy, ball etc... and gets to play... that sounds reasonable.

Dave,
We are talking a 10 week old puppy here. Also, from what I gather from previous posts from Mr. Banks this dog is primarily a companion.

I have a puppy approximately the same age, out of all working lines (Itor/Ana Leerburg litter) and I do calming exercises for certain things. (i.e feeding, walks, going outside) If a dog can't stop and calm himself for a second, then his nerves will be hectic and learning will be compromised. You can then feed, jump around and play with the pup, open the door and let out, etc......drive work is great but all the drive in the world is useless if the dog can't stop, be calm and focus. JMO, of course.

Doyle, sounds like you are doing fine!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Cindy... we have a different approach. 10 weeks old is that rare once in a lifetime period where the dog is often fearless, wild, bonkers etc...

I prefer to encourage drive at this young age. Why the rush to put the brakes on? Yes, focus is important but can it wait a few months?

Especially now that I am doing French Ring, I see that early Schutzhund training starts to narrow, focus and shape behavior before the pup really gets a chance to show what it can do.

For a companion dog... sure, this will be fine.

Dave,
Who says anything about rushing?? Teaching a pup self control and how to "cap" his drive in order to get what he wants can create quite a drivey working dog....regardless of the sport you wish to work in.

We are not talking about squelching drive or taking it away........only focusing (or capping it) to create a dog that actually builds drive in himself by the tension created while being shut down. The degree you work this, depends on the discipline you wish to work in. (different for a pet as opposed to a competition obedience dog as opposed to a schutzhund dog, etc...)

If you prefer to let your dog get in the habit of being drivey with no focus then that's fine with me. To me it's like turning the furnace on in the winter and opening all the doors in your house!! It seems like you are missing a window of opportunity to imprint some skills that the puppy can use as an adult later in life.

Bernhard calls this 'building tension' and it creates explosive and intense drive when the dog learns how to channel it. Of course, the handler/trainer has to know how to do this and use it........which is a whole different thread.

You keep using words like "capping drive" focus, calm... for a 10 WEEK OLD pup? And you DON'T think this is rushing it?

Of course focus is important. But will it hurt the pup to wait until 16 or 24 weeks?... or is that too late?

I prefer not to "cap drive" until the glass is completely full. Do you think this pup is at MAXIMUM drive at 10 weeks?