Just found this site, and I'm so impressed with all the info. Hope some of you folks can help me make a hard choice.

About 2 weeks ago, I witnessed a pup being abandon outside a local museum. Long story short, the pup seemed very friendly with kids, and we (son, 10, daughter 5, daughter 2 and me) took her home.

She played happily with the kids that afternoon (supervised OC), but when my DH came home, she retreated under the table, barking and growling. We corrected that behavior relatively quickly, by having my husband offer treats (for sitting puppies only) and walking/spending time with her.

Then came the vet. I love my vet (she was wonderful with our pre-children dogs, who died about 4 and 5 years ago). During the visit the vet had to give the pup a worming pill. She wrapped it up in some Bil-jac, but the pup avoided the pill. When the vet reached for the pill, the pup snapped at her. I grabbed the pup by her scruff and shook her and gave a firm "No," but the growling continued from under the exam table. I finally lured the pup out, and after she was acting submissive, the vet offered her more treats.

The main problem is with my youngest girl. The pup has growled at her over food (dropped from the table, we feed her in her crate), and yesterday, the pup snapped at my 2 yo (presumably for waking her up). I tried to help the food issue by allowing my 2 yo to pet the pup while puppy was enjoying a bone (I was by the pup's head, with one hand on her leash, the other petting her). The pup growled at my daughter, and would not stop, even with very firm corrections (hard pops with the training collar, and a firm shake down by her cheeks). Sadly, I let myself get angry with this last incident, and my corrections with not calm.

My DH and I have had wonderful dogs in the past, and we would not hesitate to keep this pup if we did not have kids. However, we do, and this is one dominate puppy. I've made sure to do all the basics I know to establish dominance (She's behind me and the stroller for walks 3xs daily, she sits for all food/treats/toys, all humans go through doors first, no dogs on any human furniture, and since last night she's tied to me at all times), but I'm not even sure how best to play with her, as most games really get her going to the point were she is jumping and play biting and growling (we don't tug with her, but even walking can bring this on). I can also sense the my maternal instinct can make me a less effective handler, as any threat to my kids really raises MY hackles. Just for info, she's between 16 and 20 weeks and is a pit bull/lab mix.

So the question. Would the "Establishing Pack Order..." DVD help us, or should we just find a new home for this pup?

Thanks for reading my novel, and thanks for any info.

 Quote: kirsten clemente

... The main problem is with my youngest girl. The pup has growled at her over food (dropped from the table, we feed her in her crate), and yesterday, the pup snapped at my 2 yo (presumably for waking her up). I tried to help the food issue by allowing my 2 yo to pet the pup while puppy was enjoying a bone (I was by the pup's head, with one hand on her leash, the other petting her). The pup growled at my daughter, and would not stop, even with very firm corrections (hard pops with the training collar, and a firm shake down by her cheeks). Sadly, I let myself get angry with this last incident, and my corrections with not calm. ... So the question. Would the "Establishing Pack Order..." DVD help us, or should we just find a new home for this pup?

Yes, the DVD will help.

This was the wrong way to deal with food issues with a new dog, IMO. 100% wrong. I don't mess with the dog's food anyway, but especially with a new dog who has no bond with you and your family, I definitely would not put your toddler into the equation of making the dog anxious over his wonderful new treat.

You sound like you want honesty, so, in all honesty, you set the pup up for failure in that instance by giving him a high-value treat and then messing with the pup. "Group" messing, in fact.

The first thing to do (IMO) is to separate the pup from the kids. A toddler isn't part of the training of a new unknown abandoned puppy. If you can't separate them, then you do have to rethink keeping the puppy, IMO.

If you CAN separate them for now and keep the puppy crated except when he is tethered to you (short tether) or pottying/walking outside (on leash), and if you can commit to learning about training (including calmness ), then I believe that you can do this.

You may need professional help at first, though.

I should add that your maternal hackles won't be raised when you are not trying to involve the baby in the training. That was just a bad start, IMO, that can be corrected.

All JMHO.

HOWEVER, if you don't feel that you can commit to studying the DVD, listening to the training Podcasts, and reading and following the advice in the articles, then of course your family comes first.

Would you like links to some appropriate material? You definitely came to the right place!

Connie,

Thanks for your honesty. The group "food therapy" was recommended by an area trainer. I can now see it as a set up for the puppy - it obviously did not work. I would very much appreciate any advice/links. Just this afternoon after my first post, the pup growled at the 2 yo again, this time for trying to brush her (I was right there, holding the pup, and I think my "concern" was palpable. Tulip, the puppy, has spent the day either on a short tether, or crated or walking. She is missing her freedom terribly, but it's this or finding a new home (which I will not rule out). Again, I 'd really appreciate your guidance. I've been trying to read as much of this site as I can, but with 3 kids at home, there is only so much time, and I'm not really certain which articles I should focus on.
Also, I wonder which DVD's would be the most recommended for us. I would love to get the Family and Pack structure, the Aggressive and Dominant dog, the Puppy to 8 months and the Basic Obedience, but I really only have the money for 1 or possibly 2. Which would you recommend (or should I just call Leerburg)?

Thanks again,

There are a lot of pups in the world. Just because this one ended up on your doorstep does not mean it is the right one for you. You may be able to change the dog's behavior, but you may not want to spend the time now, when you have three young children. Some of the incidents you describe sound like fearful responses to me, and those can be hard to change. Maybe a slightly older and calmer dog from the local shelter would be a better bet. If I knew then what I know now, I would never have kept my older rescue, she was not a good match for a family with young children.

 Quote: kirsten clemente

Just this afternoon after my first post, the pup growled at the 2 yo again, this time for trying to brush her

Yes. Again, it's not a good thing, IMO, to involve the toddler in the training of a new unknown abandoned puppy.

The tether IS a good thing, IMO, and I would not look at it as a loss of freedom at all. It's a chance for the pup to bond with you and also to stay out of trouble.

I will get a list of links.

I would probably get the Pack Structure DVD first. I will try to cover the others in Podcasts and articles and eBooks. I would jump right in with the Podcasts tonight, because it's pretty easy (and you get the "flavor" quickly) to listen to the Podcasts. They are short, too, and I'd recommend more than one listen. (I'd also recommend a couple of viewings of the DVD.)

 Quote: Kirsten Clemente

Tulip, the puppy, has spent the day either on a short tether, or crated or walking.

You mean tethered to you, right?

http://www.leerburg.com/308.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/dogtrainingpodcasts.htm
(Scroll particularly to 9 and 10, and then 1 and 2.)

http://www.leerburg.com/dogskidsdirectory.htm

You will see that a lot of material leads back to pack structure, from dominance to children-and-dogs; this is why I (JMO) would start with pack structure (the video and the pack leader Podcasts) right away. Even tethering the dog to you is a lesson in pack structure: you are in control and you are the leader.

http://www.leerburg.com/kidbites.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/dogs-babies.htm

For now, I would uninvolve the toddler while you are getting your feet wet with pack leadership and structure and bonding with the pup, if you do keep him.

Oh yes, tethered to me. I'm trying to make the tether time bonding (mostly by talking and petting, and some basic obedience), but I wonder, should she be crated anytime I'm interacting with the toddler? (ei. while reading to all the kids on the couch, can the pup being laying on her dog bed on the floor at my feet?) Since my dd is only 2, she wants much of my time and attention, and I hate the thought of crating the pup so much of the time. Honestly, until last night (when she snapped at the toddler for waking her) we were allowing her to spend most of her time around us. I tried to keep the kids from smothering her with affection, but she wanted to be around all of us together (although she would stay with me if we split up).

It is my hunch that my concern over what might happen to my child is actually causing some of aggression that we're seeing. Obviously, the group food therapy set the pup up for aggression, but we've had no trouble up til now with the kids brushing the pup. I think my anxiety affects the way my pup is reacting to my daughter, and I'm hoping that I can set up a situation where I know my baby is safe, but the pup can be out of the crate and tethered to me.

Thanks again,

Yes, I'm sure that your anxiety is fueling the tension.

The puppy doesn't need to spend all her time in a family-group setting, but you mentioned the puppy lying on the floor-level dog-bed while you read to children who are up on the couch. Is this a situation that causes you anxiety? Is it secure-feeling to you? Because I'm thinking that with a drag-line or the tether on the puppy and the puppy on the ground, having you and your kids up on the couch is defining the right pack structure.

I don't worry about crating the dog in order to give full attention elsewhere, though. I just never let the crate be perceived as punishment or isolation.

I personally like to give full attention to a dog-in-training, and not be torn between two things at once, and most especially with a new dog. Anything that would cause me anxiety or tension is not good for the puppy, anyway; you want all interaction with the puppy to be controlled and calm. Crating helps a lot with that. Crate BEFORE you are anxious or angry.

Some of the things that have happened are things that are specifically advised against in articles about dogs and kids (such as messing with the dog who is eating or sleeping), but they have happened, and I'd now be extra-careful with the dog. I'd follow every suggestion in the Podcasts and the video, and I'd read up.

P.S. It's been a looooong time since my kids were small. I hope that some of the dog-experienced folks who also have young kids will chime in.