I am new to the group, so I please have patience if the question I am about to ask is basic. I have a 7 month old male rottweiler that has undergone basic obedience training. I have been working on introducing off-leash training by recalling from increasingly longer distances. However, I have been experiencing some recall problems where he will completely ignore me. I read some of the articles on this site explaining how to get a consistent recall, essentially use a long lead and give a very strong correction. This method has been working well, however, it seems to have created another issue. When standing at a distance, perhaps 15 feet away, I will often place my dog from a sit into a down position. However, recently, if I give the down command and he does not comply, when I step to approach him, e turns away from me and keeps walking away until I grab his lead. It's obvious that he is avoiding the correction - what am I doing wrong. I want the dog to trust me but he must also comply. Are my corrections on the recall too high of a level? Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I do not want to harm my relationship with the dog.

-Al

 Quote: al lewis

However, recently, if I give the down command and he does not comply, ... It's obvious that he is avoiding the correction

Are you 110% certain the dog knows what you want? My dog will behave like this if I introduce the correction phase too early in the training.

 Quote: al lewis

when I step to approach him, e turns away from me and keeps walking away until I grab his lead

Just to clarify, why are you approaching him? Possibly, if you first approach him and then correct him, he will learn to associate your approach with a correction ???

I hope someone more experienced than me will reply because I am planning on starting "distance commands" soon too. Thanks for posting this.

Al - Your pup is only 7 months old It sounds like for a 7 month old pup he is doing well but I would definitely tone dwon the correction level and amount. Make things positive for him! More than likely if he is not obeying to the length of time and distance you are wanting then he doesn't truly understand what you are asking or the reward involved is not of great enough importance.

I would start working on a positive recall ASAP but don't take a long line off of him. I keep long lines on my dogs for quite some time, my 13 month old pup is still on one and has just been put back on a tether while in the house. I don't give a puppy the opportunity to ignore me, I try to only give paths to a reward. Setting them up for success to build confidence before and after trying something new. Like a command the dog does very well and knows.

For him walking away, keep a long line on him. Keep the line in your hand so that you do not have to step forward or bend over to reach the line. But for me, 7 months and learning long distance commands I don't use corrections.

 Quote: jennifer marshal

For him walking away, keep a long line on him. Keep the line in your hand so that you do not have to step forward or bend over to reach the line. But for me, 7 months and learning long distance commands I don't use corrections.

I would not be using corrections either. Instead of stepping forward to grab the line, why don't you try using a high value food reward and back up away from him and call him to you in an excited "lookee what I got" tone and make it FUN for him to come to you?
It works well and that is how I do it. Make sure you give him a couple treats first so that he knows what you have and then try that. (cut up raw sirloin works well or any other food that he REALLY likes, and be sure to use that food only when you are training)

7 months is still fairly young to expect perfect obedience, and I would just really make everything you do with him fun so that he does not want to go away from you.

(oh, and if you are in a position where you have to get that line to avoid any dangers if he gets away from you, just step on it instead of trying to grab for it. The best game in the world for a dog is "keep away" or "chase me".)

The problem is the down or the recall? I got lost.

 Quote: Al Lewis

... I read some of the articles on this site explaining how to get a consistent recall, essentially use a long lead and give a very strong correction. This method has been working well, however, it seems to have created another issue. When standing at a distance, perhaps 15 feet away, I will often place my dog from a sit into a down position. However, recently, if I give the down command and he does not comply, when I step to approach him, e turns away from me

Also, here are some recall threads with loads of suggestions to have a dog who LOVES to hear the recall.

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=15&Number=158886&Searchpage=3&Main=16590&Words=recall&topic=0&Search=true#Post158886

If you have called him to be corrected, I'd start over with a new word. Who wants to come to be corrected?

I'd work with the down close up, for now, too.

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post144160

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post142466

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post140351

http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthread...true#Post132685

Grab some high-value treats, read up on marker training, and have FUN with it! It IS fun!

Why is this in the Fear Biters forum?

Should I move it?

No hard corrections on a pup that young. That's what he's trying to avoid by walking away from you - not a good thing. You can turn it around, however, and should work on that immediately. Don't put the puppy in a position to be corrected. He's still a puppy, has the mind of a puppy (immature), and I think you are expecting too much. All commands start with you right there, no distance between you and the pup. He has to LOVE to obey you. So use treats and markers at his age. Motivation rules a puppy. The Leerburg site has an article on Training with Markers and other articles (not sure which ones you read):
http://www.leerburg.com/markers.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/corrections.htm Keep in mind your pup's age, mind, and his absolute knowledge of any command you give and ALSO keep in mind that a sit or down 1 foot away from you does not instantly or necessarily translate in a dog's mind to a sit or down from a longer distance.
http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/Ed%20FrawleysPhilosophyonDogTraining.pdf

Set the puppy up to succeed (not to be corrected) and think how you might do this. Perhaps asking for a shorter time in the down or the sit. Don't give him a chance to break, release him before he breaks. Increase the time as his age increases. As he gets a few more months on him, you can expect more.

You may already know this but never call your pup/dog to you to correct him or show anything but praise and high value treats. With the long line on, call him and if he doesn't come within 1 or 2 seconds, say "no, come" and give a slight tug on the line and walk backwards to entice him with your movement and with treats.

Oh, and welcome to the forum

Where on this site did you read to "use a long line and give a very strong correction" on a 7 month old dog? It doesn't sound to me like "this method has been working well" at all. The dog has got to want to come to you, are you correcting the dog for not complying? I bet you are, big mistake with a puppy. If you're working on the recall why are you giving a sit then down then recall? It's a puppy, work on one thing at a time. Expecting to much is also a mistake. Do your dog a favor and find a good working dog trainer or club to join. Strict compulsion is really bad training. Also read the articles on the forum, they'll help you and your pup,
AL