I have a Cane/Neo mix a year and a half old. Dominant , Stranger aggressive. I have been socializing intensly and have had good results . Also a few unprevoked bites prior nothing serious. This past weekend I had about 30 people at my house for a Memorial Day party and Ceasar had met about six strangers, with muzzle of course, and did great. One even had him on his side petting his stomach pretty impressive. And then the scariest thing I have experienced with him. About three hours into the party a friend and his two year old daughter came over and for the first 10 minutes after Ceasar meeting them , everthing was great. Until I heard my name yelled and 5 feet from me was Ceasar on top of the little girl with muzzle in her face I quickly ran over and removed him without any problem. I didnt see this whole event but as it is explained to me this is how it went. The little girl was holding hands with a relative walking out back as Ceasar came out of no where and shoved with his head in to her to knock her over with a light growl as she then fell when Ceaser put his muzzle over her head and laid his body on hers and thats when I got him off. Luckily the little girl was completly unharmed with a dirty dress and small scratch on her arm.

I spoke with multiple professionals including his trainer and behaviorlists. With my trainer thinking it might have been a playful act and others to say I should get euphanize my dog, that it was predatory aggresion and no way to train with children.

Not sure on either.

Has anyone had experience with this type of action, need some advice ASAP.
Ay input any other reasonings for this? Or training tips.

It was definitely not a playful act - it's dominance. This dog should not be allowed this type of access to children. Muzzle or not I don't think he should unrestricted access to strangers. He should be under direct supervision and leashed in any interactions with others. Not a dog to have wandering around a party for sure.

An unsupervised dog with aggressive issues in a large group of people was asking for trouble. At the very least he should have been tethered to you. Crated in another area of the house would have been best. There really is no way to properly watch an aggressive dog and entertain 30 people.
A muzzle is good but it is no substitute for training, and damage can still be done by the dog.
If you want to work on overcoming stranger aggression it should be done with one or two people present who know what you are trying to do with the dog.
And I see no reason why a dog needs to be milling around with a large group of people, even if the dog is well behaved.
I would recommend that you read all of Ed's training articles and put the information into practice.
The dog's actions definitely sound aggressive, I'm glad the girl wasn't hurt more seriously.

Steve, the second opinion (to euthanize for "predatory aggression") sounds a bit extreme and IMO, stupid..

First, pack structure immediately. Crate and tether and if you have any questions on his behavior muzzle him around people and of course, all children.

"Predatory aggression" is prey drive. It means the natural desire and drive to chase small and/or fast moving things. Prey drive is one of the main drives utilised in training many many dogs and can be controlled.

It is very difficult to tell about whether it was playful or not. But this dog should not have been off of a lead and away from you with his history of aggression.

What were the circumstances of the "unprovoked" bites? Why do you feel the aggression or bite from the dog was unprovoked?

Have you had him since he was a pup or is he a rescue?

Let's get to the heart of the matter - you let an aggressive dog with a history of biting out of your sight at a party?

Even with the dog muzzled you are asking for a lawsuit ( not to mention that your home owners insurance would drop you immediately and you'd be in a "high-risk" insurance category for the next ten years ).

This dog by your post has had multiple chances to bite others, sorry but "few unprevoked bites" *is* a big thing - it shows a problem with the dog's temperament *and* the fact that you've allowed the dog to be in the situations to bite repeatedly - if you were the owner at the time the dog had bitten in the past ).

This is an unsafe situation - get the dog to an owner that will be responsible and protect other people from the dog while working on it's problems, or euth the dog.

I will also say that as a trainer, your attitude towards your dog biting in the past "Also a few unprevoked bites prior nothing serious" would scare the hell out of me. And saying " Luckily the little girl was completly unharmed " followed by - "with a dirty dress and small scratch on her arm".....that's not completely unharmed, that a child that was lucky that she wasn't injured further.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if the dog has bitten multiple people on your watch, it's time to get him into another owners hands.

Some links:

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/packstructure.pdf

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/preventingdogbitesinchildren.pdf

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/dealingwithdominantdog.pdf

http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/dealingwithaggressivedog.pdf

http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm#dom


edit: I agree with Will that if you cannot handle the dog to rehome him with someone who can and that he should not have been unsupervised/loose around people no matter of having a muzzle on. I do not think this dog should be out of your control(off lead) at any time.

It can be difficult to tell things over the net but IMO euthanizing a dog is always the last resort for me which is why I felt the advice to just euth the dog was a bit extreme considering you had another person say it could have been playful. I work with dogs that other trainers have told the owners to put down and with the right handling they do fine.

You need to do some research into the breed you have. You appear to be aware of the issues your dog has and yet had him out with a large group of people and children.

I can address the neo, as I am very familiar with this breed.

Do you know that a neapolitan mastiff is a guard dog? This requires absolutely no training, it is innate in them. You do not have to train them to do this, but all the same you cannot train it out of them either. If you think the neo is a "Gentle Giant" you are mistaken. A well trained neo with a solid temperament will be good with their immediate family. To strangers they should be very aloof and wary.

Neapolitan Mastiff training has much less to do with socialization and much more to do with obedience training. I have well trained, confident neo's and I would never in a million years have 30 people over and let any of my dogs roam(muzzled or not). I would not have one person over and let my dogs roam. On occasion when people have come to see my dogs they are leashed, under complete control and never is more than one out of their crate at a time.

 Quote:

Ceaser put his muzzle over her head and laid his body on hers

That is what a neo does.

Get Ed's video's on Pack Structure, Basic Obedience and Dominant & Aggressive Dogs. All our neos are trained with these methods and the Pack Structure Video is a requirement for anyone who has ever inquired about getting a dog from us--no exceptions.

I don't want to sound irritated, but this is not a breed for everyone and I don't want to read in the paper tomorrow about a neapolitan mastiff that mauled a child.

Shannon



Edited by Shannon Reed (05/28/2008 07:29 PM)
Edit reason: spelling

Yes have had since he was a pup, and I consider the bites to be unprovoked because neither people attempted to pet Ceasar or had enough time to even look at him. Pretty sure no body language was shown towards him. Quick with out warning no snarl or growl.

wow.

i just wanted to say - i'm sure you know this - but i'm not sure i'd define provocation to be someone attempting to pet the dog or looking at them. or, i guess, i know it could set certain dogs off (i had to work w/one of my dog's aggression over the petting thing), but just that those aren't acceptable excuses/reasons for aggression. not sure if i'm just reading the attitude of your post wrong though, so if i am, i apologize.

Just for your own information...

The 1968 version of the Neapolitan Mastiff standard says this:
"The Mastino is particularly adapted as a guard and personal defender. He is steady and calm, but aggressive with strangers, especially when commanded to be so."

The 1991 version (reflecting the values of more modern society that disparages ferocious people and animals) says this
"The character of a Neapolitan Mastiff is steady and loyal, not aggressive or apt to bite without reason."
(Taken from The Official Book of the Neapolitan Mastiff By Sherilyn Allen, VMD)

Shannon