Hello all, I'm new to the posts here on Leerburg. I am picking up a Belgian Malinois pup from a breeder, whos dogs have great working lines, in a little over a week and wanted to get some advice.

My background... I have raised and trained Dobermans when I was younger with my father who trained by correction.
As an adult I've trained two Boxers with a training by reward and correction (with e-collar) method.
I'm now looking to encompass all the training methods, praise, drive, reward, and correction (e-collar) with the Mali pup (e-collar of course when the pup is older).

What I'd like to do is raise this dog as a house pet first and as a Schutzhund competitior second.

What articles and videos would you recommend to help me accomplish these goals....

I do have the following Leerburg DVDs on the way...
-Basic Dog Obedience
-Your Puppy 8 Weeks to 8 Months
-How to Raise a Working Puppy
-Building Drive & Focus with Bernhard Flinks
-Electric Collar Training for Pet Owners

Thanks again, Bill!

Sounds like you've got the right videos coming, don't know about articles, there's so many I lose track

As for your goal of house pet first and schutzhund dog second -- I think you should reverse that a little bit. The goal is fine in the long term, plenty of dogs can be both without any problem whatsoever. But when it comes to raising a puppy for work, I would focus more on the working aspect than the house pet aspect. I wouldn't put much focus on manners or corrections, I would control the puppy by redirecting, distracting and just let him enjoy puppyhood with little inhibition. Everything motivational and positive to let the dog build their character, confidence and independence without thinking their name is "No."

The key to remember is that, if you don't allow the behavior to develop to begin with, then it won't manifest into a problem. This means leashing the pup, making sure he doesn't get the opportunity to chew furniture, using the crate when he can't be supervised, and basically keeping him out of trouble by not letting him get to do bad things to begin with.

Once the pup is older the foundation of the working side of his life will be clearer to him, assuming you've been working with a competent trainer early on, and then you can start to put more control and spend more time making him the perfect house dog.

As for corrections, there's no need to correct a dog that doesn't 100% understand what is expected of them. Puppies go through what I call the "mindless puppy stage," ESPECIALLY Malinois puppies. There is so much drive in that lil head of theirs that they just go nuts and don't really think about their actions. It is all instincts when they are young. So I don't see any need to introduce corrections into the dogs training until they are over 10 or 12 months old and fully understand the command they are given. Thats not to say that on his 1st birthday he gets to wear a prong collar, it is less about age than it is about the dog understanding the command. It might be 11 months, it might be 15 months, or it might be never if you have a very willing to please dog. It all depends on the dog, and the handlers skill level.

Working with a competent trainer would also be very beneficial. i notice you also got the E-Collar Training for Pet Owners DVD. I don't know the content of the DVD, but do realize that there are conflicting methods of raising and training a working dog vs. a pet (which is probably why Mr Frawley titled it as being for Pets). So before you strap on the e-collar on a 6 month old pup, make sure you fully understand your goals and don't screw something up while the pup is young that cause problems down the road that could have been avoided. You will make mistakes, and Mal's being the OCD dogs that they are, remember mistakes very well, but being aware of these things and avoiding as many mistakes as you can will save you having to "fix" problems down the road. Even a hard adult dog was once an impressionable puppy.

So, take your time, and something you will learn with a Malinois puppy is: PATIENCE Lots of it. Lots and lots and lots of patience. And bandaids. Good luck with your Maligator.

Just my $0.02 on how I would approach it myself. What made you choose a Malinois???

this is an article I recommend
http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

Mike, thanks for your info/thoughts.

First why a Malinois. Well, one I want an intelligent working dog with lots of energy. I loved to take my dogs to into the woods for a long hike or to a field for obedience and then some retrieving. I know that I'll have a hard time keeping up with the energy in the Mali, but I look forward to the challenge.

Second, I understand what you mean about working dog first, family dog second, and I understand what you mean here. If I concentrate on the family aspect before the working dog's drive I could mess it up. My biggest question is how does was house train (potty train) a working dog. I don't have the option of a kennel. I do have, have used, and plan to use a crate. But other than making it a point to get the puppy outside to mess as often as possible how does one correct a puppy who has messed in the house?

Lastly, I still have a boxer in the house. She is a two year old female that just lost her two and a half year old male companion to cancer. So I would love to allow her time to play with the Mali pup. But I understand that when developing drive in the pup I want the dog to want to play with me, and only me. Any suggestions or anyone with experience with this?

Thanks again everyone!

 Quote: william dutton

My biggest question is how does was house train (potty train) a working dog. I don't have the option of a kennel. I do have, have used, and plan to use a crate. But other than making it a point to get the puppy outside to mess as often as possible how does one correct a puppy who has messed in the house?

You answered it. Get that puppy outside. You'll develop a "rhythm" to when its time to go out. When #1 or #2 happens outside where it is suppose to, make it the biggest event in the whole life of the puppy. "Good poop!" "Good pee!"

 Quote: Mike J. Schoonbrood

The key to remember is that, if you don't allow the behavior to develop to begin with, then it won't manifest into a problem. This means leashing the pup, making sure he doesn't get the opportunity to chew furniture, using the crate when he can't be supervised, and basically keeping him out of trouble by not letting him get to do bad things to begin with.

 Quote: William Dutton

I do have, have used, and plan to use a crate. But other than making it a point to get the puppy outside to mess as often as possible how does one correct a puppy who has messed in the house?

You don't. The puppy doesn't get the opportunity to do that unseen because he is taken out often, and when he's outside the crate he is tethered to you There is no way to correct after the fact.

If the puppy was tethered to you and you had overlooked a trip outside and he started to squat, you would pick him up, take him out, and mark/reward/praise like crazy for outdoor potty.

 Quote:

My biggest question is how does was house train (potty train) a working dog. I don't have the option of a kennel. I do have, have used, and plan to use a crate. But other than making it a point to get the puppy outside to mess as often as possible how does one correct a puppy who has messed in the house?

If you consistently get them outside before they have the opportunity to make a mess, you should never need to correct them for going in the house. Going in the house is handler error, not dog error. Puppies are puppies, they won't be perfect. If they do go in the house then you just suck it up, clean it up and avoid it the next time.

 Quote:

Lastly, I still have a boxer in the house. She is a two year old female that just lost her two and a half year old male companion to cancer. So I would love to allow her time to play with the Mali pup. But I understand that when developing drive in the pup I want the dog to want to play with me, and only me. Any suggestions or anyone with experience with this?

I keep my pups separated from other dogs till about 10 months old (around the age when you see the pups interest in you becoming a priority over all else) then slowly increase the time together over the following 2 or 3 months, starting at a few minutes a day building up to being together all day (if you can stand the constantly goofing around, afterall, it is a Malinois..... getting him to leave the older dog alone will be quite the challenge!!! I just separate the dogs when they get to be too much). As a pup, every few days or every week or so I always give them a few minutes of interaction with the older dog, and always let them sniff through the crate door etc just to let them establish a rapport and not suddenly spring this strange 10 month old pup onto an older dog. It's easier when they are puppies, but at the same time I don't want the puppy being too focused on spending time with the older dog. Right around 10-11 months old, after lots of solid bonding time, the pup won't be so totally 100% obsessed with the other dog anymore and you'll be able to do some simple obedience with both dogs out together. Like having them both sit in front of you for bits of cheese, rather than ignoring you and running off together to tear up your lawn

My 4 month old Dutchie pup drives my 6 year old Lab crazy. She even drives my one year old Dutchie nuts.

That happens on the rare occasion when she slips through my legs to chase after them. The total time she is with them is under a minute until I catch her.

Until I catch her all h**l breaks loose.

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If they do go in the house then you just suck it up, clean it up and avoid it the next time.

Umm, Mike, I draw the line at sucking that stuff up. I'll clean it up, but not suck it up.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

Going in the house is handler error, not dog error.

Absolutely!

We want never even to let the habit start. It's just something the pup doesn't do, because the pup is never in dire need of relief and trapped indoors.

Then later when the dog can hold it, he will, because he will know that relief is coming, and because he has never had to form a potty-indoors habit when he was a pup. This is a huge part of the reason for a solid schedule... the adult dog knows what time it is. Mine all know exactly when suppertime is approaching and they are all lined up in the kitchen with their best "sit" -- hint, hint.