As some of you may know when I increased Enoch's raw food intake he started having diarrhea. So I cut it back down to the previous amount, added pumpkin and his stools went back to normal. There was an exception. He usually has a movement in the morning and one in the evening. He would have one in the morning but not in the evening. So I got up at 3 and 4:30 in the morning for the last couple of days. He did have a movement at 4:30 both nights. I just figured it will take him a while to get back to his normal schedule.
So yesterday I noticed his stools were loose and I noted I would add pumpkin to his meal the next day. For his lunch and dinner I added yogurt for the first time. Only a half a tablespoon split over both meals. The strange thing though was that his stools were loose in the morning BEFORE I added the yogurt. That evening he had his second movement. I thought that was great because he was getting back to his schedule. He didn't have a movement for the rest of the evening. Usually when he has had diarrhea he goes about 5 times over the course of a day. We took him out before bedtime which was around midnight, I think. He just peed and I walked him around for a while to see if he had to go. Nothing. My brother heard him moving around a lot in his crate and checked on him twice and Enoch just looked at him. Enoch has in the past when he has had diarrhea barked or whine but he didn't this night. My brother went back into his room and shortly later heard Enoch whine. So he ran out to take him out and he already defecated in his crate.

And that's the story. What I can't understand was why he had loose stools/diarrhea when we didn't change his diet. And was the restlessness in the crate a subtle sign my brother missed when he usually vocalizes when he is in a "push." We're really frustrated and we don't like to quit on anything we believe in our hearts is good for Enoch but we're having a lot of difficulties with this raw diet and we're close to putting him on a no grain kibble. I really, really, really, don't want to do this but I don't know what else to do. Sorry this is long. I hope we can all figure this out together. Thanks.

Maisha, it does sound like your brother missed Enoch's signals(moving around a lot/restlessness). When in doubt take him out! Stay on a schedule, but in a case where the pup has not had a movement in a while take him out often. Diarrhea is always more frequent than solid stools

Has he had good stools lately? How long has he been on raw? Are you limiting the fat content of what he is being given? Are you giving probiotics? A powdered probiotic can be added to the water and on the food. I give Powdered probiotics(probios dispersable powder) vs yogurt, though I will occassionally give Kefir. Bene-Bac can also be a nice resource and can be found al most pet stores including PetsMart and PetCo in with the cat/kitten/baby animal stuff.

I'm sure others will chime in with more, I am no expert on raw diets and never had much issue with dogs not switching well so I have limited advice to give.

I hear you, Maisha. I had different difficulties with my dog on raw and I seriously entertained the idea of quitting at one point, so I understand your frustration.

Connie and others are the best ones to advise you but I will ask if you are 100% certain Enoch has no medical reason for diarrhea?

He has had both a fecal float AND a fecal culture to rule out bacteria or parasites? A fecal culture finds things that a simple float does not.

Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/11/2008 07:52 PM)
Edit reason: fix misplaced quotes

How many days had he had normal formed poops before this bout last night?

Is this pudding or liquid?

If he had gone days with normal formed poop and there was no change of diet (I understand that the yogurt came after the loose stool) to have triggered the diarrhea, then yes, I'd be seeking different answers. He's a puppy? I forget his age.

I agree 100% with the fecal. (I would just collect it and drop it off and say that he has diarrhea, unless you are ready to discuss raw with the vet. I'd want to know what the vet would say without knowing that the dog was raw-fed, because I've heard of and experienced way too many vets who tend to blame anything and everything on a raw diet that the vet disapproves of.)

I also agree that if he is agitated or giving any signals, I'd be taking him out. He doesn't want to have diarrhea in the crate any more than you want him to, but his signals aren't clear yet.

So. Right now the food to give him will rely on whether tis is watery or just loose. I'd drop off the fecal in the morning.

He is acting normal otherwise? Not lethargic? Drinking and eating OK?

 Quote: connie sutherland

I also agree that if he is agitated or giving any signals, I'd be taking him out. He doesn't want to have diarrhea in the crate any more than you want him to, but his signals aren't clear yet.

Also, diarrhea can be very sudden and absolutely uncontrollable.

I'd take him out if I had any question at all.


P.S. One of mine (and my granddog, too) will stare at me when he has an emergency. It might be your dog's way, too, if when he was moving around a lot and someone came to him, he "looked at him."

Edited by Connie Sutherland (06/11/2008 08:09 PM)
Edit reason: p.s.

Has he been treated for hookworm? Hookworm can be passed directly from the mother's milk, so even if he doesn't eat poop he could still have worms.

You vet didn't do a fecal at your first visit? You can always take a doggy bag of fecal matter in to be tested; less expensive than paying for an office visit. 'Course, if he needs to be wormed you'll have to pay for the office visit anyway...

The first month I had my pup he had on-and-off diarrhea, ranging from pudding to squirting runs. I worked for a vet at the time, so I ran something like 3-4 fecal floats (both in-house and sent out to the lab) on him and every test came back negative.

I consulted all 3 of our vets and not one of them could give me a reason why this was happening. One vet gave him metronidazole for 7 days (which did help) but the diarrhea continued on after he finished the meds.

Finally, he produced a fresh sample at one work one day and I took it upon myself to send it out to the lab, checking off every poop-related thing I could find on the form.

One of the boxes I checked was for a fecal culture. Just dumb luck since I really didn't know what the test was.

Within 72 hours we had a positive result for abundant salmonella. He went on antibiotics and the problem was solved. Finally!

I've posted this story often since it nicely illustrates why a fecal culture is a good thing to do. They are more expensive than floats but for ongoing diarrhea where a float comes back negative, they are the next test to do, IMHO. And if no fecal has been run on Enoch, then you need get some fresh poop to the vet for testing.

Lynne,

I brought Enoch home at 8.5 weeks and the breeder took him to the vet and he had a clean bill of health.

Connie,
He is not lethargic. If anything his activity level has increased. He's eating and drinking water.

I didn't realize I needed to bring his first movement of the day. My vet told me that's what I needed so I have to wait until tomorrow to drop it off and he said the results will come in the next day. Why do they need the first movement of the day? Do you guys think it's worms and not the food? If it is worms how serious is that? I've never experience worms in a puppy. I know there is no point in speculating until we get the results but I like to cover my basis.

One more thing. I just thought of this. There are tons of wood chips in my front yard and all around the neighborhood. It's common desert landscaping. He is always putting it in his mouth and most times I'm able to take them out before he digests them but of course not 100% of the time. Could this cause him to have loose stools?