Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbour.
#198341 - 06/11/2008 06:19 PM |
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Hi everyone:
I was out in the backyard a few days ago with our 5 year old 100 lb. neutered male German Shepard, who is (trained) and usually very friendly towards relative strangers (except the mailman). The lady next door was pruning her garden close to the hedge that separates our properties,minding her own business. He and I were within 5 feet of her. Suddenly he growled and lunged through an opening in the hedge and grabbed onto her thigh. I had no time to shout "NO" or stop him physically. He didn't bite her in the sense that his teeth penetrated her flesh, but I suppose you'd still classify this as a bite. There was a definite bruise and scrape where his teeth met her leg, plus her shorts were torn.
The only saving grace in all of this, is that his teeth have been filed down from his constant chewing on tree roots and branches and of course tennis balls. He immediately returned to our yard, so his plan wasn't to stay and keep biting. I put him in the house immediately.
I apologized over and over to my neighbour, half afraid she might call the police, which she is entitled to do. He has growled at her once before through the window, but this time there was no warning, no time to react. Needless to say I was horrified!
Why did he do this? It wasn't the first time we were out in the yard when our neighbour was in hers, but maybe she was closer to us than he felt was comfortable. Does he feel her yard is his territory? He has on occasion chased a squirrel from our house to hers, otherwise he is forbidden to enter her or any other neighbours yard.
We have owned him for nearly 8 months. Until this time he and one other big dog had free reign over his previous owner's property (many acres of wooded land)
Our dog is up to date on all shots, has an excellent temperament, a great pedigree and very much a people person. My mistake is underestimating his natural tendencies I guess. He can be very possessive of me, not with other members of our family but only with our cats, who he dislikes coming near me or his food bowl. He lunges at one of them to warn him off but has never bitten either one of them.
This lady told me that she was once bitten by a GSD many years earlier, and now she is afraid of all dogs. Did he sense her fear? She says she didn't become afraid until he actually gripped onto her leg.
Is he not getting enough exercise...could that be it? We usually take him for a walk every day or a run in the park. Plus I play fetch with him regularly. This is our first summer out in the yard and each experience with him is a relatively new one. Should we work him more to tire him out so that he doesn't react to his surroundings? Would you suggest obedience training? I'm at a loss to what I should have done or should do..I can't let this ever happen again.
PS. we are putting up higher and stronger fencing to make everyone feel more secure. Umm I hate to ask this but does he think I'm his "bitch" or something? His previous companion was a female pitbull.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198343 - 06/11/2008 06:30 PM |
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Sounds like he is resource guarding and you are the resource. The dog's perception of you as his possession is not good.
What's your level of experience with ownership and training? What have you done with this dog?
For example, what have you done (if anything) about the mailman issue? How bad is it?
There's a lot going on here. Too much to address at once.
I'd absolutely keep the cats away from the room or the crate where the dog eats, for one thing (a bandaid for now). He has warned you that the cats are in danger. I would also make certain that there are high places in every room for the cats to be safe where the dog cannot reach.
Most important is the pack structure problem, which is why I ask what you have done as far as training goes with this dog.
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198344 - 06/11/2008 06:32 PM |
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he is forbidden to enter her or any other neighbours yard.
Forbidden how?
The dog is loose (uncontrolled) in a partly-unfenced yard? There is nothing between him and the neighbor but a hedge?
What have you done when he has growled or lunged at the cats before?
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198346 - 06/11/2008 07:30 PM |
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There's way too many questions in your post to try and answer. The two things I picked out are, "Why did he do this?" and "I'm at a loss to what I should have done or should do.." At some point, we've all been at ground zero in terms of dog training and reading your dog's temperament and actions. You need to start reading Ed's articles, listening to podcasts and maybe invest in a couple of his basic DVDs. A couple really important things to start with at this point: (1) start instituting a pack structure where he learns that you and other family members always outrank him, that you will determine what he's allowed to do or not do, and (2) always have complete control of this dog - whether the situation call for a leash, prong or dominant dog collar, fencing, a crate, etc. Unless you've be doing obedience or some training in the 8 months you've had him, you can't really predict exactly how he'll react in various situations, other than some negative ones you've already experienced or witnessed, e.g., the mailman, cats, etc..
This website and forum has all the information you need to get started on establishing a good relationship with him and working on the obedience training he needs.
Mike
Suppose you were an idiot.
Suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself.
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198348 - 06/11/2008 07:42 PM |
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It wasn't the first time we were out in the yard when our neighbour was in hers, but maybe she was closer to us than he felt was comfortable. Does he feel her yard is his territory? He has on occasion chased a squirrel from our house to hers, otherwise he is forbidden to enter her or any other neighbours yard.
We have owned him for nearly 8 months. Until this time he and one other big dog had free reign over his previous owner's property (many acres of wooded land)
That is part of the problem. Remember that dogs have no concept of land ownership. If it's nearby then it's their territory. If he's been marking around the bushes even on your side of the hedge then it's quite likely he does consider the neighbor's yard part of his territory. Add to that the fact that he guards you and the neighbor came closer than previously and that could explain the bite.
For now I wouldn't let him out into the yard without being on a leash with someone holding the leash who can control him. I'd also look into getting a fence for the yard.
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198354 - 06/11/2008 08:22 PM |
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#198361 - 06/11/2008 08:46 PM |
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Thanks Connie for replying.
About the mailman. Well I try to close the kitchen door if I suspect the mailman is coming. He doesn't actually see the mailman. He will "attack" the mail when it slips through the slot in the door. Or if the dog and I are in the living room and I see the mailman approaching I will grab his collar and if he beings to growl I will say "NO"
We are going to buy an outside mailbox asap. It's the noise of the mail slot being opened and snapped shut that gets him going.
We have a 3 foot high hedge between our house and our neighbours. It's an old hedge and in one or two spots its a bit thin, thats where he slipped through. Our neighbour and I had discussed getting new fencing this summer.
What have I done in terms of training? Honestly he hasn't really needed any up until now. He's been the perfect dog. He had been trained by his former owner. I felt adequately (boy was I wrong)
But considering his change of home and location, he needs to learn how to behave in more confined spaces.
What I mean by not allowed to go into the neighbour's yard. Is that when he tries to chase a squirrel and run through that bare spot in the hedge he is stopped. This lady has a wooden fence on one side. Our neighbour to the left has a 5 ft. wood fence also. We are the ones who have the hedge. (this is my parents old home that we have inherited, so no time to put in fence yet . As I said in my post each experience is new and this is our first summer outside with our GS
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198365 - 06/11/2008 09:22 PM |
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Heidi,
It isn't just learning to behave in more confined spaces. It's learning to behave, period. AND it's an on going process, not something once done can now be forgotten. Dogs to the end of their life will pick up any authority left laying around, it's the nature of the beast, they can't help themselves.
You must always work with them to show the way and where they fit in the world, continuing that structure for them till the final day, otherwise...............well suffice to say they don't do really very good at coping with the stresses of the modern scheme of things. As attested to by terrorized postmen and bitten neighbors.
So start showing your dog the way. Start taking the authority the dog thinks he must assume, because if you don't someone will really get hurt and ultimately the dog will pay with his life for doing what he thinks is right.
Ed has given you the tools, Connie has given you the keys. Start now...............You'll enjoy your dog like never before.
If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Heidi Ludwig ]
#198373 - 06/11/2008 11:27 PM |
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What have I done in terms of training? Honestly he hasn't really needed any up until now. He's been the perfect dog.
Heidi,
I am not trying to be offensive here, but I am doing the V8 forehead slap right here..... (actually it is an attempt at humor since I know you are probably worried about this, but with some research of the articles here and the help of all the great trainers and handlers on this board, it CAN be worked on and "fixed" so to speak...)
All dogs need training all of the time. Maintenance training is what I call it. It gives them something to do and focus on and also keeps them tired. Whether it be obedience, some kind of agility, playing fetch with a chuck-it (ultra balls are great in the chuck it) or something to keep him busy and exercising both physically and mentally.
It is like people who go out and buy a fully trained PPD and then never do any of the training to ensure control of the dog. Yes, the dog is trained but will become rusty without maintenance training, and then they wonder why the dog bit with no warning and most importantly, no reason.
People are "linear" thinkers, we tend to learn something and move on to learn more, never really going back to refresh something we learned. However, dogs are "circular" thinkers so no matter how far you move forward in training, you always come around the "circle" and work on the basics as well. This keeps the dog properly "tuned" so to speak.
It is okay that you thought he "was" the perfect dog, but now it is time to read up and regain control since he has taken the plunge into deciding for himself what he is going to do without you, the pack leader, telling him it is acceptable.
Until The Tale of the Lioness is told, the Story will Always Glorfy the Hunter |
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Re: Our german shephard tried to bite our neighbou
[Re: Carol Boche ]
#198378 - 06/12/2008 04:19 AM |
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It's raining outside so I can't go out there, and I am procrastinating on the stuff I have to do inside... so I'll give this a shot
Suddenly he growled and lunged through an opening in the hedge and grabbed onto her thigh.
.........
but this time there was no warning, no time to react. Needless to say I was horrified!
There was a growl. Before the growl there is body language to indicate the dog is about to growl. You need to study the dog and watch the body language he gives. This is called "reading the dog." It is amazing how many things you can predict when you pay attention to what your dog is telling you. I can tell my dog is going to jump up on me before he jumps up, I can tell my female is going to dive over the sofa and crash into the window barking at people walking by 3 or more seconds before she does it. There is a window of opportunity, sometimes very short, that indicates what a dog is planning to do. Once you figure this out, you will never use the phrase "there was no warning" ever again. There is always a warning.
Why did he do this? It wasn't the first time we were out in the yard when our neighbour was in hers, but maybe she was closer to us than he felt was comfortable. Does he feel her yard is his territory?
Yes.
He has on occasion chased a squirrel from our house to hers, otherwise he is forbidden to enter her or any other neighbours yard.
How does the dog know he is forbidden? In order for the dog to understand this, there must be a consequence to his entering other peoples yards. As has been said by someone else, dogs don't understand land ownership the way people do.
We have owned him for nearly 8 months. Until this time he and one other big dog had free reign over his previous owner's property (many acres of wooded land)
So he is used to owning territory spanning multiple acres....
has an excellent temperament, a great pedigree and very much a people person. My mistake is underestimating his natural tendencies I guess. He can be very possessive of me, not with other members of our family but only with our cats, who he dislikes coming near me or his food bowl. He lunges at one of them to warn him off but has never bitten either one of them.
I think this is the difference between working dog mentality and pet owner mentality. I own dogs that I assume WILL bite people, and I take the precautions to prevent people from getting bitten by my dogs. Pet owners own dogs that they assume won't bite people and wait till the dog does before taking precautions. You need to take the advice of the other posters and read up on pack structure and obedience/control work.
This lady told me that she was once bitten by a GSD many years earlier, and now she is afraid of all dogs. Did he sense her fear? She says she didn't become afraid until he actually gripped onto her leg.
I doubt this was a factor.
Is he not getting enough exercise...could that be it? We usually take him for a walk every day or a run in the park. Plus I play fetch with him regularly. This is our first summer out in the yard and each experience with him is a relatively new one.
In an unfenced yard, as a person that is too inexperienced to read dogs (I dont mean that negatively, some people have had dogs all their lives and still can't predict what a dog will do until he's already done it...), the dog (being a new dog to you in a new situation) should have either been kept behind a fence or on a long line until you are absolutely certain of how the dog will react under every situation you are likely to encounter in your yard.
Should we work him more to tire him out so that he doesn't react to his surroundings? Would you suggest obedience training? I'm at a loss to what I should have done or should do..I can't let this ever happen again.
Tiring a dog out is always good. Obedience training should not be considered optional. It is a fundamental part of owning a dog that too many people overlook.
PS. we are putting up higher and stronger fencing to make everyone feel more secure. Umm I hate to ask this but does he think I'm his "bitch" or something? His previous companion was a female pitbull.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.
Fences are always good. And yes, he probably does, but it has nothing to do with who his previous companion was. It has to do with the way you handle him. You need to be dominant over him and do a lot more obedience training with him.
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