I have a 12.5 week old 35 pound presa canario who eats like they just outlawed food. I mean she INHALES it. I've been feeding her the raw diet (BARF) as did her breeders. I am a BARF virgin, this being the first dog I have fed the raw diet.

When I first fed her a chicken wing, she gobbled down the whole thing without chewing. Now I cut the wings into pieces before feeding her. Same thing with turkey necks (I cut them up with a clever or else she gulps them down whole).

Today I fed her an oxtail segment (cut in half, like a cross-section). I thought it was big enough for her to chew the meat off and then work on the bone. Well, stupid me. She took about 4 or 5 chomps and wolfed the whole thing down. She stopped and whined a bit after it went down (seemed like she was in a little discomfort), but then went on to eat a ground rabbit patty in her bowl. I almost had a heart attack.

My questions are: (1) Is it possible that she will have trouble with the bone in her gut or in passing it, even though she got it down ok? (2) Should I monitor her for any signs after she swallows a big bone? (3) Should I continue to cut up the chix wings and turkey necks or just let her go for it?

Sorry if my questions are naive, but I can't sleep sometimes when she gulps down in 30 seconds a big bone I thought she would work on for 20 mins. Any other tips, insight or suggestions would be appreciated by this novice BARFer.

Mahalo,

Eric Sacks
Honolulu, Hawaii

From my experience, the best advice when starting out is. . . don't watch!

When I started raw feeding many years ago, after watching my adult male GSD chow down on chicken parts a couple times, I took to giving him his dinner and not watching - it made me cringe to see (or imagine) what was going on. I think the dogs know as much or more than we do about what they can eat and swallow. Talk to the breeder to see what/how they feed their adult dogs. It may ease your mind a bit.

Turkey necks are fine as is. The bones are smaller and softer and aren't a problem. He'll crush them a little bit so they go down easier. If you can get chicken backs, they're similarly light boned but there's a little more meat than chicken wings which are mostly bone with relatively little nutrition there. I wouldn't bother to cut them up. I don't feed wings unless they come as part of whole chickens, which is what I use. I haven't fed ox tails.

Some people prefer to feed a huge chunk of food so the dog can dismember it as he sees fit, rather than us trying to cut it into what we think is an appropriate size. Others like to try to hang onto big pieces a little bit so the dog will have to chew it somewhat before wolfing it down. Once it goes down, amazingly, their digestive system will take care of the rest. I don't think I ever saw any bone fragments in my dogs' poop.

He'll be o.k.

Mike

Hi Eric,

OT for a sec - There is a little 6 month old Presa pup that I see at the park near my house and DAMN is he cute!! (AND a total sweetheart) I can only imagine what a little beauty your girl is...

Now about the RAW... I think swallowing some bones whole is pretty common - my dog will chew whole wings a few times, but if I cut one up into it's segments, he'd swallow each piece without chewing. I have found entire chicken femurs in his poo (which I have a hard time imagining traveling through his gut) but he has never seemed distressed in any way by it, so I don't worry. Dog's digestive systems are much tougher than ours, so what seems horrific to us can sometimes be totally fine.

I WOULD continue to watch for signs that she's making herself uncomfortable. Sensitivity/discomfort in the belly, or inability to eliminate could signal a blockage, and that could be serious, but in all honesty, I think more blockages occur after swallowing non-edible objects like balls, socks/clothes, toys, etc. The body is built to digest bones... plastic, not so much. Based on your description, it doesn't sound like your pup handled the oxtail super well, so I might avoid that in particular (at least for now), but chicken bones are quite soft and I think digest pretty easily. You can always tell by looking at what comes out the other end!

I totally understand your instinct to make the pieces of food she swallows smaller (in effect, doing some "chewing" for her), but in this case, I might actually make them BIGGER. Have you tried feeding chicken or turkey backs, or "cages" (rib cages), instead of legs? I don't think it would be possible for your pup to get a large chicken back down her throat without giving it some serious chomps, so this might encourage more chewing. Maybe you could even get a WHOLE oxtail that isn't cut into segments! You can also get sections of rib racks, like 4 ribs together, that are far too big not to chew at for a while... Even if she's completely safe swallowing bones whole, she will get more dental benefit from gnawing on her food, so more complicated, bigger bits might be a good change once in a while.

Hope some of that helped - just to note, I am in no way any kind of authority on RAW, but I've been feeding my "gulper" (95lb Ridgebcak) RAW for 2.5 years now and while I've worried about countless aspects of his diet, much like you are, I've had very few problems. Taking everything step by step and introducing new food items one at a time, you'll learn what your dog does best with (and what she doesn't - MY dog can't do turkey bones...) and after a while you'll be able to make her meals without worrying about a thing.

Good luck!
~Natalya

Yup, Natalya makes a good point. Bigger pieces are often better. I'll toss down an intact half chicken for my adult dog and that takes him...oh...a few minutes. Separate, smaller pieces are gulped down in the blink of an eye.

And Mike's suggestion about not looking...I don't look either. I'm aware of what's going on, I pay attention, but I've learned not too watch too closely.

Dogs really can handle themselves and my dog seems to know what to do if he takes too much...he hurks it up and starts over!

Thanks to all of you. Great suggestions. It's great to hear from those who've been through this before. I will certainly follow your advice. Unfortunately for me, however, I am incapable of looking the other way....just a masochist I guess. And I won't feel completely at ease until she poops ok tomorrow.

Any other thoughts, tips, suggestions on feeding Cleo would be greatly valued.

I'm not very computer savvy, so I tried and failed to attach a pic of Cleo. I don't have a web page. Is there an easy way to post a pic in a message?

Thanks again, y'all, for the help.

Eric

HI Eric

With dogs that literally inhale their RMBs I have found that giving them larger pieces makes them chew more. I also am not a big proponent of wings only as RMBs unless they are for a tiny dog like a baby corgi or smaller dog. For a pup of Cleo's size I would be using leg quarters or breast and wing section of the chicken.

 Quote: sarah morris

Dogs really can handle themselves and my dog seems to know what to do if he takes too much...he hurks it up and starts over!

OMG, I think I blocked out of memory the few times Oscar has done just that (so gross!! ), but you're right Sarah, sometimes they just get it so wrong on the first go round that the only option is to chuck it all up and have another go! Oscar ate so fast one night that he didn't even have time to step away from licking his bowl clean (which ironically takes longer than the actual "eating"), but since he was standing right over it, he just threw everything up right back into his dish! Then ate it again!! A normal person would probably have needed to leave the room at that point, but I just kept thinking, 'wow, I'm not going to have to clean up any nasty mess off the floor - how cool is that!'

Guess it's not hard to nurture a higher tolerance for "ick" when you feed RAW for a while...

~Natalya

Our dog Max used to inhale his food and I did get quite paranoid about it at first. We initially gave him chicken necks thinking they were about all he could handle. Well he did just that, straight down the throat, didn't even touch the sides.
So we decided to give him something bigger that he would have no choice but to chew. We gave him chicken backs - half one at first - but he just had to chew it up, it was too big to swallow.

I guess he decided he really liked chewing the bones though cos now, when we give him chicken necks, even though he can just swallow them he chews them instead.

Maybe he just needed to be forced to try chewing to realise that it's more fun that way.

I am wanting to start feeding the raw meat diet. I have 2 GSD now (5-6 years old) and purchasing another one from Vandenheuvel's kennels (where I got my first 2), and she recommends the raw food diet, when I got my first 2, there was not as much information available, so I didn't go that route. But, now I am wanting to feed raw to my new puppy and the adults. So am doing my research, I have been told tripe is excellent to put in the food, however can not find any around where I live (missouri). I would also like to order other foods that I can't buy locally. Does anyone know where I can order and have it shipped at a reasonable shipping cost). It seems like everywhere I find it, it is many states away. I would appreciate any information. I want to do it right.....

Hi Claire,

This is a little off topic, but kudos for deciding to make the switch! My suggestion - don't hold out until you find a tripe source... raw, unwashed tripe is indeed a rarity, and if you don't like the idea of (or can't afford) shipping it in from another state via the internet or phone order, don't sweat it - just make due with what IS available to you. While tripe might be super nutritious, it isn't the only raw superfood - my dog has never had it, and I've been feeding raw for going on 3 years.

Do you have any slaughterhouses near you? You might be surprised to find one closer than you think - this would be your best shot at tripe, and perhaps scraps of all sorts. Most butcher shops won't carry tripe, but they're a good source for all manner of other meat. Chicken backs are considered cheap soup fixings to these places, so you can usually get them CHEAP. Don't be afraid to really chat with the butcher and let him know what you're doing with the meat - mine started to keep an eye out for rabbit heads and odd bits once they realized it was all for my dog... I've also had success ordering "special" items right from the grocery store - things like beef heart and kidneys can actually be ordered from even plain jane grocery stores. How about friends who hunt? This can be a GREAT opportunity to stock a freezer in the fall with all sorts of good muscle, bone and offal...

Just remember, raw is all about proper nutrition OVER TIME, not 100% all in each meal serving...

Good luck!
~Natalya