For those not familiar with my "problem" see the thread about aggression- has attacked humans.

I've been working on the pack leader ground-work, and it's going well. I stepped back and started with re-teaching familiar commands, and have started implementing distractions. I've also started tracking (thanks to the poster who on a different thread posted the Schz tracking link, it was very useful!)

For the most part, we don't pet this dog any longer, except when I'm damn sure he's in a positive state of mind (usually 1st thing in the morning, after being let out of the crate, and when one of us comes home.) The other evening, my s.o. (bonehead that he can be, going against my instructions) called the dog to him and had him sit, then proceeded to pet him. I witnessed the dog appearing to at first enjoy the petting, then started looking away, then he showed his teeth. I immediately said "NO!" and "plotz" and he did mind quickly. I had him wait there a minute, then let him up and moved him away from the s.o. and had him plotz again for awhile (then off to bed in his crate.)

My s.o. was left wondering how a dog can appear to enjoy being pet one minute, and suddenly act aggressively the next. Incidentally, I've educated him about not petting the dog at all for awhile, while we re-make the pack structure (me being the primary trainer.) But, occasionally he'll get a "good idea" in his mind, and decide he's doing the right thing having the dog do something before the petting. But, this dog has shown he does not seem to like petting (has attacked my dad twice while he reached down to pet him.)

My question is, do you think a dog can genuinely not enjoy petting, or is this still the dominance issues emerging?

Another question: what do you think of putting a muzzle on this dog (we have a good quality Leerburg one) and "forcing" the petting, showing we're not backing down? This is a technique that was suggested to us by a trainer, who has questionable experience. It sounded like a scary suggestion, but I'd try anything if it would help.

 Quote: stephanie biros

My question is, do you think a dog can genuinely not enjoy petting, or is this still the dominance issues emerging?

Another question: what do you think of putting a muzzle on this dog (we have a good quality Leerburg one) and "forcing" the petting, showing we're not backing down? This is a technique that was suggested to us by a trainer, who has questionable experience. It sounded like a scary suggestion, but I'd try anything if it would help.

Hi Stephanie,
I think your dog probably doesn't like petting (neither does mine) and does not tolerate it well, because of his dominance.

I'll let others address the muzzle/forced petting question...

Some dogs genuinely don't like to be petted.

Muzzling and forced petting will work on a small percentage of dogs- but for most it just violates trust. You're forcing them to endure something that they really don't like, to what end?

A solution I've seen work in situations like this, is to train the dog a new command, that means "come stand by me, but if you want to walk away again, you can".

In other words, train a command that calls the dog to you and lets you pet it, but when it gets tired of petting, it can move away when it wants. A muzzle helps until the dog understands that he can just walk away when he's fed up.

Forcing a dog to endure petting, by putting him in a sit, is usually going to end the way you described. Giving him an easy out, walking away, is a lot easier for everyone.

Where a muzzle is particularly handy is finding out if all petting bugs the dog, or only certain types.
Some dogs don't take petting well, but tolerate patting on their sides and chest.

I tend to introduce my dogs pretty early on to chest and side "thumping", and they really enjoy it. Some dogs are just hypersensitive to touch, and petting just rubs them the wrong way, but they can handle patting because it is briefer in nature.

He seems to enjoy petting at certain times, like those times I described, when he's already in a happy mood. In those instances he is wiggly while we pet, then he walks away, and that's fine. I understand what you mean by calling him to us, but not putting him in a certain position he must hold and endure. He also seems to tolerate petting by me much more readily than anyone else, esp the s.o. Admittedly, I feel this dog is closer to me, but I feel I'm also better at reading him, and just not approaching him/ petting him when I can tell he's in a "mood." The s.o. says "oh great, just avoid him, then, that'll work" sarcastically.

Just a quick note on the same line... my Bouv has never been fond of extensive petting, a quick pat to tell him he did something good is fine, he doesn't get agressive or anything - just doesn't seem to like it - though he does like to get his legs rubbed....... My theory is, I pet to make him feel good - if he doesn't enjoy it why push it on him??? I've never been a big fan of dogs that want constant petting anyway so this works just fine.......

I've always liked the "That dog don't take to pettin, son." line as well...

My constant worry is that someone will pet him *because they (the human) wants to*, and he'll end up getting aggressive with them. Unfortunately, in this society (people's beliefs), dogs are there to be pet. My s.o. philosophy is he *should* tolerate it. We went camping this weekend, and it was great, except for all the people who approached us to pet him. Um, does a 100 lb shepherd with dark features even LOOK friendly? And people look so put off, they just stand there dumbly when I say no thanks, he doesn't care for being pet, as if I'm being rude. Parents snatch their children away, glaring at my dog (ok, that was kind of fun.)

I can't help it, I hate feeling like I am being rude, even though I know it's my right and my duty to prevent anyone else from getting biten. My s.o., well, he's been warned. And when he does get bit again, and he looks at me with total confusion and anger that our dog can bite him, I'll just shrug my shoulders and know it was his own stupidity that caused it to happen.

 Quote: stephanie biros

My s.o., well, he's been warned. And when he does get bit again, and he looks at me with total confusion and anger that our dog can bite him, I'll just shrug my shoulders and know it was his own stupidity that caused it to happen.

He doesn't sound very trainable.

 Quote: stephanie biros

.... We went camping this weekend, and it was great, except for all the people who approached us to pet him. ... And people look so put off, they just stand there dumbly when I say no thanks, he doesn't care for being pet, as if I'm being rude.

I think that "Dog in training; please do not touch" vests and patches are pretty easy to buy online.

I wouldn't use a "Service dog in training" version, but "Dog in training" -- well, he is, right?

I think that engaging with people about it as little as possible works best, BTW. "I'm sorry; he's in training, so no touching. Thanks!"

Anything more seems to invite discussion, advice, argument ("Dogs always like me"), etc.

A smile along with a period at the end of the sentence work better for me.