Hi, am a little stumped.

My 20 month rott intact started growling a few 2 months ago. He will come over for some attention or be on the rug by our feet. he gets a stroke but will sometimes let off a growl.
His body lauguage is of being afriad, hackles might come up and he will turn his back on us or walk off and settle down on the other side of the room. He has never raised his lips or shwon teeth. He will not hold eye contact. He will just want to back off and get away.


My partners mum is terriefied of dogs but has seen him grow up since 7 weeks old and he loves to visit every Sunday for raost dinner left overs and the fuss made of him.The other day he went in bounding up to her, she bent over stroked him and he growled and gave her his back!!!

I have challanged this at first by saying no and standing up. He will contuie to growl.If he contued i would put him out in the yard by his scruff. This has had little effect other than to make him more afraid.
I changed tact and would try to show him there was nothing wrong and get a nibble, hes a real chow hound, but he would be reluctant to take it. No i was not trying to reward the behaviour, i wanted to show i would not correct like i did at first him with a correction. Its terrible to think a dog that showed me total trust is acting scared when 30 mins earlier he was fine.

Now we just ignore him, he will growl for a second, give us a dirty look and walk off. im not sure if i should challange him or not.

He has never shown any aggression to any people or animals. He is very confident, loves strangers and strange places, is well socialised.He doesnt even bark if the front door gos or a stranger comes up to the back gate.

He has been trained the way ive trained all my dogs, positively but with corrections where needed. He is good of lead and ob work is coming on really well.

I am concerned as this is a behaviour ive not come across before.

Leerburg members help..

Hmmmmm, at 20 months old, I would wonder if he is starting to come into his own and maybe challenge pack status with you?

Be interesting to see others opinions here as well.

Do you ever use a crate? Basically him growling and then being allowed to walk away and do what he wants after that is something I personally would put a stop to.
I probably would also start tethering him and keeping him with me at all times, only allowing what you want him to do and not allowing any behavior that is not asked of him, and see if that helps. Maybe a little too much freedom and he is now starting to see how far he can get.

Hi Carol, thanks for the input.
No, not crate trained any more, stopped at 14 months. He has the run of the house downstairs, open planned, so one large room really downstairs. He has a rug in the centre of the room and another behind the sofa under the stairs.

In my opinion, I would go back to the crate. All of my dogs, whether pup, young dog or adult get crate time.
For dogs, a crate provides security as well as a place they can den up in.

All my dogs will go to their crates on their own at times and it just tells me that they need some space and want to be left alone.

Also, if my dogs are given an inch they will try and take a mile if allowed to.

This is not a breed specific issue, and I am not all that knowledgeable about Rotts, so hopefully Steve Strom or someone else with Rotts will step in here with info on temperaments.

 Quote: carol boche

Hmmmmm, at 20 months old, I would wonder if he is starting to come into his own and maybe challenge pack status with you?

I'm no expert, but I would guess this at least has something to do with the issue. I have no doubt that you have trained him very steadily up to this point Andrew, and he sounds pretty stable, but from the little in your post, it sounds like your boy has an awful lot of freedom AND gets an awful lot of good attention and affection from everyone in the house, without necessarily working for it. This can be ok with some dogs, but others will take advantage of it.

You mentioned that the first thing the dog does when it goes to your family's house is bounce over to mum for petting and "fussing" over, but it doesn't sound like he has to sit, down or otherwise wait for the PERSON to decide what kind of affection he's going to get. Is that correct? The growling could be a manifestation of a number of things, but ultimately, he's calling the shots from start to finish and so far, you're only correcting the last stage. What would happen if you made him sit and wait at the door for a few minutes before coming inside, then, once inside, he got zero attention from everyone present? What if any affection only came after the dog did something to earn it? Have you tried this? Does he still growl if the affection is a reward?

I might be way off base, but it sounds a lot like my family's old toy dog - who was not even a dominant personality, but had too much doting on him and too few boundaries, and thus became a very growly dog to get what he wanted.

Hopefully others will help out here too.

~Natalya

Yup, I agree with everyone else. It's time to take a step back, and reestablish ground work.

Also, a dog should ALWAYS have a crate, IMO.

Hi and thanks for the replies.

Natalya, i will make him work for a realease. He has to enter the in laws house on lead and pinch. He is taken into the living room and put into down stay.
After he is settled for five minutes i give him the realease and he dos the tour of the room saying hello to people, usaully into the kitchen first to see mum in law.
I will then call him back and again down stay while we chat and have dinner. Every so often i will get up and praie him and reinforce with nibbles.
But yes i have thought about it and am going to get another crate for the house. I knew you people would talk sense and help clear things up for me.
Andrew

(Disclaimer: I'm no expert; only have been researching my own aggression issues with my shepherd.)

It seems like a good idea to have him "down" for the first few minutes of entering a different house, but I think people should also be given the instructions to not look at, touch, or talk to the dog for some time, until the dog is calm and relaxed, and certainly not growling. Also, he probably shouldn't be off leash at all for awhile, as you establish ground work, but ESPECIALLY not at anyone elses home.

"He will come over for some attention..." "but will sometimes let off a growl." IMO if the dog likes being pet, then it's important to call him to you and make him do something before giving attention. To me this sounds like the dog is trying to demand your attention, which shouldn't be allowed.


"i would put him out in the yard by his scruff. This has had little effect other than to make him more afraid.
I changed tact and would try to show him there was nothing wrong and get a nibble, hes a real chow hound, but he would be reluctant to take it." This all sounds confusing to me, and I'm sure it must have been for the dog. Carrying him off by the scruff, then giving him treats = confused dog = fearful dog = can lead to aggression.

Also, it seems like your partner's mum should be completely ignoring this dog for awhile, showing aloofness. This behavior is not ok, and in my experience, can only escalate if not nipped in the bud.

Hi Stephanie,

He has been going to this house twice a week since he was 8 weeks old. He gos on his lead and has to down etc. It is when he approachs mum as per normal, gets his cuddle then he will occasionally growl and move away as if spooked.
Same at home, he will come over all happy to say hello, get a stroke but will sometimes growl and act afraid during or after the affection. If you continue to stroke him he will carry on growling, hackles will come up slightly and he will move away.
He does not appraoch and growl... he does it as he is being petted.
As for confusing him its me that was confused. At first i thought puberty, dominance, be firm, isolate him then let him back in the house and ignore him. But he would just act scared so i thought perhaps to reasure him, henmce the nibbles, but he wouldnt take them.
So now we just ignore him, call him daft and leave him alone.
I do work heavily with strucuture and have never had this problem with past dogs, though have never had a fully intact rott either. So back to the crate.

I doubt this is the problem, but a vet check to rule out any medical problems, would be a good call.