 too much out = chewy grip?
#204801 - 08/07/2008 09:18 AM |
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Hello,
I am still having probems with the out. The dog only outs when I nearly choke him or throw a ball his way (sometimes even then he still manages to get the tug also). I am currently studying the dvd "Preparing the dog for the Helper". In it Bernard says it could be an handler issue. I have noticed however that my dog's grip tends to get chewy when I tell him to out the toy.
1. What should I do to get the dog to out immediately without promoting a chewy grip?
2. How can you tell a dog has a genetic chewy grip or good grip for that matter (like Bernards dog Itor)?
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 Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Rosalinda van den Ham ]
#204811 - 08/07/2008 10:17 AM |
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Chewy grip is usually a product of training, not genetics.
Too much out, too early, can cause a chewy grip. He doesn't want to give up the tug, because he's not ready for the game to end.
First, how old is your dog?
Second, have you tried making a "trade" with the dog when you out it, instead of just taking the tug? For example, offering food or a ball, in trade for the tug.
Pay the dog for his outs.
With a young dog, <12 months, I wouldn't out the dog off the tug at all, I would either A) offer something in trade, or B) clip a thin leash to the tug, and wait for the dog to lose interest after the carry, and then jerk the tug away, to restart the game.
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#204815 - 08/07/2008 10:39 AM |
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Thank you for the comment.
My dog is 3 yrs old. I sometimes throw a ball or frisbee, which he catches. It is still an effort even then because I have to run like crazy to get the tug before he gets that as well. He is not interested in food in training.
But I would still like to teach him to out immediately, this command comes in handy when he is exercising his grip on the throat of someone else's goat like he did last time.
What way would be the best way to train this kind of dog to out without killing his drive or promoting a chewy grip?
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#204816 - 08/07/2008 10:41 AM |
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Chewy grip is usually a product of training, not genetics.
I don't agree, gripping behavior is HIGHLY heritable. Genetic behavior can be enhanced or damaged by training, but you can see genetic gripping behavior in puppies or untrained dogs. Chewy shallow grips are passed on from generation to generation, just like full calm ones are.
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Rosalinda van den Ham ]
#204817 - 08/07/2008 10:44 AM |
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First, don't throw the ball or frisbee so far! Just throw the ball hard on the ground (so it bounces) near your feet.
This gives you time to reclaim the tug, especially if you've clipped a leash on the end of it.
I would also start playing the "two ball" game with him.
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#204821 - 08/07/2008 10:55 AM |
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Re: Grip...I agree Cindy. Can't tell you how many hours I've wasted trying to build grip on a dog genetically predisposed with bad grip traits. You can screw up a dogs' grip with bad training, but it can be fixed if the genetics are there.
Howard
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#204823 - 08/07/2008 11:00 AM |
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I would also start playing the "two ball" game with him.
In this case, the two ball game isn't going to fix the grip. Might help with the out but there will be a price to pay in continued poor grip.
I would build the grip up solid first, then work on the out. Pick one issue and fix it, then move on to the next.
Howard
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Howard Knauf ]
#204825 - 08/07/2008 11:25 AM |
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I probably should have prefaced my post with "chewy grip, like the OP is describing...".
I'm biased a little though, because most of the chewy, crap grips I've seen, were on MWDs, and in virtually every case, it was handling/training, and not genetic. The dog was just outed way to often, way to early, and with too much force.
On the civilian side, I'm definitely inclined to defer to Cindy and Howard.
Howard is also right, in that the two ball game will fix the out, but you'll be left with the chewy bite to deal with.
Outing is much easier to fix down the road, than a chewy grip.
Two-ball is a great way to teach outs, but if all you want to do is get the tug back, and not actually work on outing, the best way I know, is to do like I said, and just clip a leash to the tug.
Once you let the dog win the tug, let it do it's carry, but don't fully drop the leash. Just walk with him until he gets bored, drops it, etc.
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#204838 - 08/07/2008 12:41 PM |
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Thank you all for your comments.
Ok...so according to Cindy you can see genetic gripping behavior in puppies or untrained dogs. My dog's grip is not shallow however and it seems to get chewy by turned on nerves. I am not 100% sure however.
How long should I build the grip, Howard before trowing in the sock? Because I would not want to waste time either on building a good grip if the dog's grip is bad as a result of genetics.
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Re: too much out = chewy grip?
[Re: Rosalinda van den Ham ]
#204839 - 08/07/2008 12:43 PM |
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Has he always had a chewy grip, or is this new?
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