Other than not letting the dog "win", does anyone have any techniques that have worked to discourage a *young* dog (6 mos) from using her feet to engage prey items (tug, bite wedge, puppy sleeve, etc)?

My GSD seems most content when she is pouncing on the prey item, and then biting. If the prey item is held above waist level, then she lunges at your waist. You'd think she was a cat.

Once she gets her mouth on the item, she has a ferocious grip, deep bite, and she counters quite a bit as well. It's just getting her to lead with her mouth, and not her friggin' feet.

I imagine that it's because she is so clever, she has discovered it's easier to bite the prey item during drive exercises, if she pounces on it and therefore makes it stop moving so she can bite it. I'm just wondering if there is any specific technique that I am not aware of, or if this is just a patience and shaping exercise (don't let her win if she uses her feet, try to slow the prey item down a bit so she's less likely to use her feet, etc).

Would back-tieing work? (or is that backwoods tieing? )

Alyssa,
I've long marveled at the dexterity of pups and their quickness. It's one of the things I love about watching them grow. Another thing I've noted as they grow (and I must qualify this) is that they don't use their feet as a weapon as much. I think the larger stronger muscles take over, which are slower and they learn they can catch with the mouth and neck actions much quicker and easier.
Qualifications: none, only observation. They always seem to grow out of it though.

Backwood chaining just takes the drive out of them. Ask anybody!
Randy

Thanks Randy, you're probably right. Having owned Boxers in the past, they never grew out of it, true to their breed.

But you're right, I've never seen a full-grown GSD pawing at the helper.

In that case, paw away little pup. I'll just enjoy my clown of a dog, while it lasts.

Alyssa, I do have a Boxer, and the way I have gotten her to use her mouth instead of feet when playing tug is keeping it out of reach unless she goes for it with her mouth. Every time she *almost* gets a paw on it, I pull it away. Eventually she snapped her mouth shut rather than her paws (mostly out of frustration I think) and I marked it, and we played then. She has a great prey drive, so she kept coming at the item when she wasn't able to paw it.
That being said, she will still use her paws a LOT and when tugging she will get a paw in there if I am not paying enough attention. Usually the moment she tries with a paw, I lose interest and stop moving. She prefers to play with me, so she will push into me with the tug in her mouth when I stop playing. Your guy will probably grow out of it, and if you can just find a way to re-enforce the "right" behavior, and re-direct when a paw gets in there, I think you will move through this phase quickly... JMO

Just a note, I've noticed some dogs (not necessarily pups) will resort to pawing for the udnerstandable reason of lack of eye-mouth coordiantion as in they are not used to going after something with their mouth that is purposefully eluding them.

It is easier to catch with the feet and it can be a natural behavior for some dogs. I've observed canids using their paws to trip a prey item, and of course foxes are renowned for pouncing. It's instinctual for some and a learned behavior for others.

Are you only playing with a tug or are you on the rag? Does she do this primarily with one item and not so much with another, or with everything? Ball on string is great for eye-mouth coordination and cannot be pinned and won through use of the feet.

How do you do the tug work/prey exercises that allows her to get her paws on the item? I realize pups paw and can jump and paw but is the item on a line or in your hands? How is she getting it down on the ground and pinning it in order to win? Or are you letting her win because even though she leads with the feet, she follows with the mouth?

I don't know that I would correct it, she is young, but you can try a ball on string to improve the mouth-eye coordination and eliminate the possibility of paws being effective.

She started on the rag, and I think that created or encouraged this quirk of hers.

At home with me, she works on the tug and bite wedge, but she has developed the habit of rearing up on her hind legs, ala horse, and pawing/lunging at the tug/wedge.

On the training field (Sundays), the helper works her with the tug on a line, because she is far too young (IMO) to be working the helper directly.

An Orbee (or the new Roni) ball on a string would probably work, as her normal approach to getting balls out of my hand is usually to leap up a couple of times, snap her jaws, and then give up and give me a nice sitz to wait for the toss.

 Quote: alyssa myracle

Would back-tieing work? (or is that backwoods tieing? )

 Quote: randy allen

Backwood chaining just takes the drive out of them. Ask anybody!
Randy

I've seen back-tieing on a pole work quite well in building drive and developing grip. The Flinks video "Preparing your dog for the Helper" shows back-tieing the dog with the handler working grip. Just curious what the negative aspects of this are? Or are you referring to something totally different?

Katie

Not for sure Katie but I think the backwood chaining tying thing that Randy and Alyssa are referring to is a "inside Joke" of sorts I'm sure they will clarify.

I don't know what Randy is talking about with the backtie, it puts my 6 mo old in even more drive. My pup was doing the same thing as yours Alyssa, ya gotta be faster with the tug and then watch your hands!!!!!!

Beautiful pup by the way!

Gothca -- it was clarified in a PM.

Clearly back-tieing doesn't work for a recall.

Katie