hi group

new problems with our pooch Esperanza. She's a very hyper 11 month old shepherd/lab/chow mix. We have another dog, Bosco, a lab mix, who is almost 8. Esperanza has been in our home for one month now.

Bosco has been seriously correcting Esperanza to the point, now, where Esperanza avoids being where Bosco is a good percentage of the time. By "correcting" I mean biting her hind quarters to show her she's not welcome where she may be going.

I have listened to Ed's podcast on introducing new dogs to the home, to the pack. I am separating the dogs when they eat, no toys on the floor or in the yard. I want to employ the crates that Ed suggests. HOwever, my wife doesn't want to put Bosco in a crate when Espy's in the house.

Do any of you have suggestions on how we can begin to use the crate(s) to ensure that Esperanza is not damaged, socially?

Any other suggestions on establishing pack order and discipline are so appreciated. I don't want to give up on Esperanza.

Thanks

Chuck S

are you tethering the dogs, especially esperanza? i would remove the ability for her and bosco to get into situations where corrections occur.

i crate 2 of my dogs, but not my male GSD. he was the first dog in the house and i've never crated him, but i've always crated my other two dogs. both of them see the crates as 'their' space and i've never had it be an issue. keep the crate positive for esperanza - treats, toys, good associations - and that should help.

one thing i did when introducing luc, my male GSD, who is very soft and a giant wimp, and teagan, my female GSD, who is not, was i kept things short and upbeat. i started out SO slowly - they'd hang out together for a few minutes, literally - and that was it. i just built up from there. having them do activities together that are fairly neutral - go for a walk w/both dogs and your wife, say - that sort of thing helped mine get used to each other. i also made sure both had plenty of one on one time, and that luc didn't 'lose' out in attention in anyway. i actually added in some extras (short obedience work) so teagan coming meant 'more' for him, which i think helped with how he viewed her. she's dominant to him, but she didn't threaten his place in the pack, if that makes sense.

....i'm pretty new to dogs myself, so hopefully i'm not off-base, but those are somethings that helped with me. i'd work on making the crate esperanza's safe, positive place, and on supervising the two dogs together more and controlling their interactions so that they stay positive.

Chuck,
I would supervise them when they are together whether it be inside or outside. YOU should be correcting the dog and Bosco if you want the behavior to stop. YOU are the pack leader and should make it clear by correcting Bosco for doing something you don't like (innapropriate pack behavior).

Keep a leash on both dogs to make corrections easier if necessary and just a firm voice correction and stepping between them sometimes is enough.

You may have to crate them regardless. The dogs (especially if one is younger and more energetic) need time apart and crating is a safe option. Is there a particular reason your wife doesn't want to crate Bosco? I often do give my dogs turns in/out of the crate for breaks.

Well, enough said, I think many others will be giving you even better advice, but I am going from what trainers have told me on this one!

Lisa

P.S. I have a lab named Bosco-funny coincidence

hi

and thanks.My wife doesn't like the idea of crating Bosco if the door to the crate is closed. I think she does not see this as "fair" to Bosco as he has lived here for 6 years.Comments?

I will work on creating a safe space in the crate for Esperanza. But, _when_ should be in there?

How to begin to create the crate as the "safe space"

Other ideas, input,etc.is very appreciated.

Chuck

 Quote: chuck silverman

hi

and thanks.My wife doesn't like the idea of crating Bosco if the door to the crate is closed. I think she does not see this as "fair" to Bosco as he has lived here for 6 years.Comments?

It sounds like Bosco and your wife are running the show.
You need to help your wife see why crating Bosco is going to help the dogs get along better, and why that is important, such as: Boscoe needs a break, they need to take turns being out (like human siblings fighting if they are with each other all the time), Bosco needs to learn to play nice, and anything else that you can think of that would compare them to unruly kids who need to learn social skills.
You also need to make sure that Espy is not out of line with Bosco so that he isn't forced to defend himself.

I never thought about using a crate until I was living in an apartment and my dog was detroying doors and window blinds while I was out. Getting a crate for that dog (my first over 20 years ago) was the best thing I ever did. She was two and was JUST FINE also.

I had an older dog that I started crating when I had my house for sale (a GSD). He got used to it just fine and he would even lay down in there when no one "asked" him to. I do every once and awhile have to put a bark collar on Bosco to keep him from barking (told you about that in another thread).

It sounds like you have a few obstacles and you are fighting to keep this dog. I have been there/done that. Put the time in and invest in learning as much as you can. It sounds like you are and I wish you luck. Keep reading, applying good advice and things will get better.

Lisa

Hey there Chuck! I have a lot of respect for your tenacity to stick with this and try to find a way to make it work.
Try the approach of "this is the dogs' ROOM and it allows the dogs to be given alone time. Shutting the door prevents the OTHER dog from being a pain.
BOTH dogs need a chance away from one another. BOTH dogs need structure. Neither dog should be allowed to correct OR annoy the other.
I can appreciate how difficult it is to get your wife on board with this...
When you adopted Espy, was this a decision that your wife wanted? Was she wanting the dog in the first place?

If not, then you guys really need to sit down and have a heart to heart. The environment is really not fair to either dog, and it is not fair to you or your wife.

If she WAS in favor of it, then I would find a way to do what needs to be done. I can personally attest to sleeping on the couch because I insisted on crating my puppy who my partner wanted to bring into the bed to sleep instead.
There are problems with the current situation. That will not chance with time, but it may get worse.
I really feel for you, I know it is hard, but IMHO you have to find a way to get her on board to doing what is best for the dogs.

Hi Chuck,

I want to preface what I'm going to say with this: I am honest-to-God not trying to be rude, disrespectful, or impolite.

I have read your posts about Espy and the problems and frustrations you're having with her.

The problem isn't Espy...it's your wife.

For whatever reason she clearly is not onboard with this dog. It seems that there is no agreement between the humans in the house how to live with and train this dog. You have been told in almost every thread to have a serious conversation with your wife.

I agree with Cameron: If your wife didn't want to adopt this dog then this situation isn't fair to either of them.

If she wanted this dog then she needs to do one of three things:
1. Lead
2. Follow
3. Get out of the way.

Actually, she would really benefit from getting on this site, reading up and learning about dog training, and maybe listening to what a lot of dog-savvy people have to say. :wink:

I have a lot of sympathy for you since you seem very sincere and want to do the right thing by both dogs. You're here, you're asking questions, and you're learning. I'm sure your wife is a lovely person and I truly mean no disrespect to her.

However, I have a great deal more sympathy for Espy, who seems caught in the middle of a conflict she didn't ask for. You both have to do the right thing by this dog and either come to an understanding or find her a different home.

Sarah, thank you! I was preparing a post which parrots exactly what you've written.

Chuck, I hope this is helpful to you but I asked my spouse to read the board when he can so he can see the approach I'm taking with our own puppy we rescued. More specifically, I asked that if he didn't have a lot of time to spare, at least follow my posts where I'm seeking advice. He has done that and it's really enabled us to be on the same page.

Also, the Leerburg videos I've purchased, we watch them together and discuss exactly what we'll be incorporating so we both do the same thing with this puppy individually.

I hope Espy works out for your family. It seems you're really trying and that's to be commended.

Thanks to everyone for your practical and heartfelt thanks.

This weekend I are going to decide whether to keep Espy or give her back to the fostering agency.

Right now, she's enjoying a frozen cottage cheese (low fat) kong.

Best,

Chuck