My dog Ladybug has been growling at my husband when she does not want him to approach her or if she is worried that he might cause her discomfort (such as when she has overdone her play time and is sore). I do almost everything with and for my dog, and my husband's role is pretty much limited to "doggy doorman". He is not upset by the growling. He just shrugs it off. I do not like the growling because I feel that it is a sign of an out of whack pack. Should I just let it slide and chill out? Should I do something about the situation?

Bump.

I was trying to keep my original post brief because nobody really wants to read a novel here, but maybe I was too brief and didn't give enough details. So here are some more details:

Ladybug is a rescue dog with some abuse in her past. I've been sucessful in teaching her to walk nicely on a leash, come, and a couple of fun tricks. When I first got her, she would growl at me when i wanted her to move, but now she voluntarily moves for me when she knows I am going to want the space she is occupying. I feel that we have bonded and have a mutual respect for each other.

The husband is a bit of an old hippie. He is as far from being a disciplinarian as about anyone I know. He has been to ashrams and studied yoga and far eastern religions and stuff like that. When Ladybug growls, he just gives her space. I make a noise of disapproval at the growl. Each incident is over so quickly and with no harm or real aggression that I do not pursue it.

I do not feel that this is a dangerous situation, it's not ideal, but maybe it's alright considering the dog's past and how little hubby cares about it. I'm up to the challenge if I can get some advice on how to stop the growling.

I read your original post but did not reply because I really don't know much (anything really) about aggression.

I do have a foster who is an insecure dog in general and he has started growling at me. (I've had him a while and it was a new behaviour). After much analysis and phone consultations with my rescue's behaviourist, we noticed he was not growling aggressively, but defensively - we determined this from his body language. And only in situations where he was feeling pressured/insecure.

For example, he has growled a few times when I asked him to go into his crate. On the surface it seemed to be a dominant behaviour, like he was being defiant and challenging me. Upon investigation, I realized that in one instance he had stepped a foot into his crate and the bottom tray rocked and made a noise (which made him uncomfortable to go in). On the other occasions I had just changed his bedding (he is very sensitive to change). He was telling me he was not following my command because he was nervous. I could easily get him to go in his crate by tossing a treat in.

Another time when he growled at me I was trimming his nails. Again on the surface it could seem like a dominant behaviour. I then realized that he had a broken claw on the paw I was trimming.

I think I posted a thread about this problem I had, and someone said that growling is a form of communication and you need to address the cause of the dog being uncomfortable, not the vocalization itself.

So my point is you really have to know the dog to determine if she is indeed growling because she is uncomfortable, or as a challenge.

When my foster growls at me, I NEVER back down or show weakness. I gently insist the dog go into his crate when I ask, and I continued trimming his nails (not the broken one, of course). Even if I just clip one more nail, do not back down from the dog. When I ask the dog to go in his crate and he growls, I don't get mad and correct him for growling (I admit I did at first when I thought he was being obstinate - handler mistake!) - rather I just gently and calmly insist he do what I ask and when he does he gets praise and treats, so he learns there is nothing to be afraid of. I act as though he is being nervous but I ignore the growl.

If your dog growls at your husband, maybe he could try communicating to the dog that he is not a threat. For example, maybe he could spend a minute or two a day clicker training her to do some fun things. It seems like she is intimidated by him. And she has figured out if she growls he will go away. He should not leave her alone, nor should he approach her if she growls, but rather ignore her and continue with what he was doing. I think I would avoid looking at her. Maybe he could call her over and give her a small treat. Hopefully others will chime in and correct me if this is wrong advice.

I'll see if I can't find that thread I made, it might help you.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

.... So my point is you really have to know the dog to determine if she is indeed growling because she is uncomfortable, or as a challenge. ... When my foster growls at me, I NEVER back down or show weakness. ... maybe he could try communicating to the dog that he is not a threat. For example, maybe he could spend a minute or two a day clicker training her to do some fun things. It seems like she is intimidated by him. And she has figured out if she growls he will go away. He should not leave her alone, nor should he approach her if she growls, but rather ignore her and continue with what he was doing. ...

I pretty much concur.

The first post has confused me about the trigger for the growling, but it's almost universal that I'd make plans to end it.

How about watching this together? http://leerburg.com/308.htm

The thing about a dog with a troubled past (and really any dog, period) is that the dog is not helped by perceiving a wobbly space in the pack structure where the dog is compelled to assume the higher role. As you know, dogs do not have the wiring for democracy in the pack. A few dogs are so laid back that it doesn't much matter to them, but a dog who has shown unease already with you (and now with him) is not going to have the security that he needs of a solid structure with his own place well-known and always affirmed.

I would probably take the trouble to give this information to your husband and to encourage him to enhance the dog's perceptions of security and solidity in his pack structure.

Never backing away from a warning would be an important step.

 Quote: Ingrid Halonen

The husband is a bit of an old hippie. He is as far from being a disciplinarian as about anyone I know. He has been to ashrams and studied yoga and far eastern religions and stuff like that.

He is probably going to be perfect with the role of calm, fair leader. When he understands that the dog needs this, I suspect that he will be much better than many about never reacting in anger and always treating the dog the way the dog needs to be treated, predictably and consistently.

What if I can't make him see the light? What if he will not do what it takes on his part to end the growling? This is not a man that can be forced into anything! Maybe I'm jumping the gun... I should get the Establishing Pack Structure video and watch it with him before worrying about such things.

I have to agree with Connie, Ed's Establishing Pack Structure video is excellent and it taught me a lot about how dogs think and react. For example, the difference between pack behavior and basic OB issues. It sounds very much like a pack-related issue in that the dog is getting the reinforcement of your husband leaving, thus elevating your dog's rank within the pack. On the surface it appears benign, however, these issues with a dog can escalate, as they will continue to do "little" things to reinforce their elevated status. This type of behavior can lead to all sorts of problems down the road. Therefore, I think it is best to address it, even if on your husband's behalf; the same way you would with showing a dog that their rank is below a child's within the household.

-Al

 Quote: Ingrid Halonen

What if I can't make him see the light? What if he will not do what it takes on his part to end the growling? This is not a man that can be forced into anything! Maybe I'm jumping the gun... I should get the Establishing Pack Structure video and watch it with him before worrying about such things.

Ingrid, definately get the video. There are many subtle things that Ed points out regarding establishing good pack structure that your husband could be doing, that would not be out of whack w/ his mellow view of life. (simple things like going through doors first, etc)

And, I didn't see you mention it; what exactly does your husband do when she growls at him?

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Ingrid, definately get the video. There are many subtle things that Ed points out regarding establishing good pack structure that your husband could be doing, that would not be out of whack w/ his mellow view of life. (simple things like going through doors first, etc) ....

I agree. I also think that a lot of people have the mistaken notion that giving the dog first claim to space, to going first, etc., is a good or respectful thing for the dog. Pointing out the hard-wired need of the dog to know his place in his pack and to know that the pack structure is solid can cause a subtle but very important shift in thinking about the human-dog relationship.

Respect is definitely there, IMO, but respect for the dog (again IMO) should be on dog terms. For me, that means to respect the needs of the dog as a dog, and not the needs of the dog as interpreted through our human filter.