hey....we are back early from our trip. i have a couple of questions.

1. the tent. we did not backpack, b/c the dogs - luc and teagan - cannot share a tent. we camped in a park the night before our trip, and there were issues. this isn't the first time. the only time they've shared a tent was when we went away for a couple of nights and teagan had only been with us for a week and a half, two weeks. any other time, there has been problems.

i didn't go backpacking, b/c i don't like the idea of leaving a dog outside in the wild - tethered or not (well, actually, anywhere for that matter). maybe i'm overly protective or controlling, but i'm not comfortable with it.

instead, we stayed in the park and did dayhikes from access points on the trail. luc hurt his paw (his pads are soft from months of inactivity when i was injured, and one tore up, and i don't want it to get worse. we let it rest for a day, but it opened up when we hiked again. so we've come home now rather than the weekend.

anyways - i'm starting to think that i just can't have luc and teagan in the same tent.

i felt like a real failure as a pack leader, that they weren't following me, but then i thought about it - luc and teagan CAN be in the same tent....as long as i'm awake. the problems start when i'm sleeping, usually after i've been sleeping for a while. as long as i don't sleep, it's fine. the problem is, i am fond of sleeping, so....and i'm rarely at my best when suddenly woken by upset dogs.

so i'm thinking this is a management thing - they can't be in the same tent - b/c i can't stay awake all night to supervise them.

thoughts? is that giving in too easily? i honestly just can't think of a way to assert my leadership while sleeping , though maybe if i was more of a leader they wouldn't even get into it despite me sleeping?

i also realized that i've been treating teagan as a solo dog since she got that little dog, so luc and her haven't been together that much. that said, despite the fact she was chasing him around the tent biting at 4.45 am last sunday morning (i know, b/c i went between them, and got bitten....didn't break skin, so she wasn't out to injure him), an hour after that happened i took them out for a walk on the coupler together and they both behaved fine, neither was upset, luc was quite happy and waggy-tailed, and they worked well as a team coupled. it just seems to be the tent....maybe the space is just too small? teagan is crated at night, so she may not be good at sharing sleeping space. anyways, she ended up sleeping in the car, which she loved (teagan's feelings towards the car are way past rational, but she loves it).


2. teagan's not a relaxer. i've been asked several times now if she was used/trained as a guard dog....

at the campsite, for instance, she patrols around it (i tether all the dogs on long lines), and when she does lie down, it's at the front of the site, and she's still watching/ears on. if anyone passes within sight/hearing, she is up and alert.

i do recognize that she is a german shepherd, not a golden retriever, so maybe i should just leave her be. maybe she's not a relaxing kind of dog (luc has no problems sleeping, despite being a GSD), but just like how i find her reaction to strange dogs upsetting in part b/c of the immense physical and mental stress it puts her under, i just wonder if it would be good for her to relax a bit more. and if so, suggestions? or, i've got a GSD that is details oriented (so to speak), and not to worry about it? (i just feel lazy next to her....i couldn't be on that much )

thanks!

Hello Jennifer!
Man, what a pita Teagan is! Ya got to love her for it, don't ya. She is just never going to give it up.
However as you say, you don't know what instigates it all, it could be Luc, but you don't know because you think you need sleep. Jeez, what's the matter with you girl?

Anyways, I don't know how portable those soft crates are, but how do you think she'd do in one of those things, think she'd do any better? I don't see why one of them couldn't pack reasonably tight minus any solid pan inside.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

hey randy!

is it terrible to say, that in spite of, or possibly b/c of, her pita-ness, i absolutely adore teagan?

actually, since she and cassie look like twins, i'm always telling her that i bet cassie wouldn't do that....that she needs to model herself on cassie. for some reason, she doesn't listen.

seriously though....i don't know what instigates it. i have a feeling it is a combination of the two of them, to be honest. you probably know that luc isn't exactly the....strongest, bravest, calmest personality?

based on things i've seen while awake that i've had to step in, i think he escalates and triggers her prey drive, and the slight bully i think she has in her as well. for instance....i had a water bowl down. teagan had drank, and then luc was. teagan 'woofed' (not growled, not anything mean, i didn't think) and bounced towards luc. i think she just wanted to play. luc shrieked (literally) and jumped back, and then teagan got excited, and went after him, he shrieked again, and i stepped in. i've seen where she obviously wants to wrestle with him and he just gets freaked out and runs away. watching her with neb this week was instructive, b/c a couple of times she'd give him a bit of attitude 'that's my toy bone' which luc, was he the kind of dog to be interested in toys, would fall to bits at. neb just looked up, and then went back to what he was doing, completely ignoring teagan. and that was the end of it....but if that had been luc, he would've shrieked, and then we'd have issues.

that said, they spent a lot of time coupled and did fantastic. and they like to hang out and sniff each other, and luc will play bow to her, but more robust forms of play scare him, and teagan can be robust at times.

my guess is in the tent, one of them shifts position, teagan says a dog version of 'f off' and then luc freaks out and sets her off.

she is the sweetest dog though. they both are. i'm just wondering if i don't have a fundamental disconnect with them with respect to certain behaviours.

oh! and good idea on the soft sided crated....smart! that could go under a tarp outside the tent as well, but i'd feel comfortable. though she could probably eat her way out of one. i actually use a soft sided crate sans hard bottom for neb backpacking, b/c i don't trust him with my precious tents (they're all ultralight, and aren't built to withstand biting puppy).

actually, heh, if i can share something i found hilarious, luc and teagan both ended up kind of sitting on neb's soft sided crate in the car and as a result it's a bit....lopsided. anyways, the trail is fairly isolated, but there was one access point down a logging-type road/atv trail, so not a lot of traffic. there was a lake next to the access point, so we went there after a hike. neb needed to calm down a bit, so i'd stuck him in the crate and covered it w/a shirt. a logger came up to get water, which is fine, except you end up feeling a bit vulnerable. teagan was sitting next to me barking, and i wasn't about to tell her to stop. so, the scene: a logger walking past us to get some water, with luc and teagan and me on one side, teagan barking her head off, and luc contributing occassionally. they got neb, who'd fallen asleep, all excited, and he started barking and running around, and then his crate started rolling down the hill. i think the guy was freaked out enough by teagan, but his face when a fabric box covered in a shirt started barking and rolling was priceless.....heh.

I don't know about Cassie and how she'd deal with another dog as a constant companion. Once the boundries were set, I think things would be fine......as long as she felt the other dog was at least up to her push, yeah it'd be okay. She's not like my last one, who never gave in and was always a rank driven pita.( I still miss her)

Okay back on topic; as long as you insist on sleeping (jeeez), the dogs can not be left loose and expected to behave, no matter who is instigating what. Thats why I thought of the soft crate for Teagan (or maybe Luc), it'd give her a break, a chance to relax. Is there room in the tent for something like that?

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: randy allen

I don't know about Cassie and how she'd deal with another dog as a constant companion. Once the boundries were set, I think things would be fine......as long as she felt the other dog was at least up to her push, yeah it'd be okay. She's not like my last one, who never gave in and was always a rank driven pita.( I still miss her)

accurate or not, for the purposes of pep talks for teagan, cassie is a minor saint

selfishly, i know, i do insist on sleeping....it's a weakness of mine, what can i say. luc might actually be a better (re: less likely to eat it) candidate for a soft-sided crate. i doubt one his size would fit in the tent, but i could have it right outside the tent, and i'd feel a lot more comfortable with that.

i initially thought this was one of those things i just needed to keep on working on, but i've given it several tries, and i'm thinking now management of the situation is best.

Eeek, no way would I trust Teagan outside in a soft crate!

Neb and a rolling crate! Hahahahaha. Sounds like a cartoon scene.

Ya better hope he doesn't learn he can go where he wants like that! Just step on the sides, I can go where ever I want!

You really will look crazy then; having to tether a crate to keep the dog from wandering the neighborhood.

Randy

Would Teagan be any more trustworthy/mellow with a muzzle on while you slept (even if it is a decadent habit)? Can you tether her too, maybe you could lay on top of her leash?

heh, randy, we'd be the neighbourhood misfits then....me out for a walk w/my muzzled girl, a barking crate, and a GSD who lets a 3-legged cat with no teeth push him around

debbie....i've done that a couple of times. mixed results. in the summer, at some point, i usually feel guilty if the tent is hot and she's in her muzzle, which is very solid (i mean, obviously, she can drink and breathe through it) b/c i don't want any accidents. the thing is, she is calmer when muzzled, overall, but we don't have a perfect track record.

maybe i should try that, in small doses....hmmm. carrying a GSD-sized soft sided crate while backpacking would be a pain, but it's that or not bring all dogs, unless i can get this better.

maybe....what i did after the time before this, is i started working with them together again, which i'd stopped after she got that poor little dog, i'd been doing everything solo w/her. now she and luc go out in the yard together, and i do walk them coupled together several times a week. all of that goes really well. they get along, outside of the tent, and as long as teagan doesn't try to instigate rough play, which with me watching isn't a huge issue. maybe i keep on working on that....and set up a tent in the yard, and do short periods inside the tent with them, to build up their tolerance.

i guess i'm also worried that at some point this will sour their relationship - it has in the past upset luc for a few days, so i was relieved - greatly - that he didn't seem to have any real issue post-argument this time. but i am concerned it could become a habit, especially b/c luc is so easy to push around.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

heh, randy, we'd be the neighbourhood misfits then....me out for a walk w/my muzzled girl, a barking crate, and a GSD who lets a 3-legged cat with no teeth push him around

I bet they would rather see her muzzled than attacking small animals.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

in the summer, at some point, i usually feel guilty if the tent is hot and she's in her muzzle,

Quit it! Guilt won't help you out here.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

which is very solid (i mean, obviously, she can drink and breathe through it) b/c i don't want any accidents. the thing is, she is calmer when muzzled, overall, but we don't have a perfect track record.

Is it a wire muzzle? If so it should not be a problem.

 Quote: Jennifer Mullen

set up a tent in the yard, and do short periods inside the tent with them, to build up their tolerance.

That sounds like an excellent idea.