What am I doing wrong?
#211870 - 10/08/2008 12:34 AM |
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So I am VERY new to clicker training. I understand the basic concept, but don't seem to put it into practice properly. Kota KNOWS click = treat. I think at first I may have given him the treat too quickly without letting him think about what he's done to deserve it.
I'm trying to teach the hand touch. He will put his nose to my hand to sniff, but thinks there's a treat (that's why he is sniffing). Then I click, wait a second and give him his treat. After about 3/4 times, he stops looking at my hand and does his 'I'm not begging' stare at the floor, still at full attention. I move my hand and click when he looks at it. (My clicks are not always on time, but I'm trying). Sometimes when I click he sits. He also knows sit = click = treat.
He is smart, and knows what to do to get a treat, but I don't want to 'ruin' clicker training by doing it improperly. Can someone help me a little better. I've listened to the podcast and read the ebook a few times, and still can't figure it out. HELP!!
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Re: What am I doing wrong?
[Re: Jennifer Skeldon ]
#211872 - 10/08/2008 01:12 AM |
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Ed is adding to his marker training e-book almost daily, so keep checking back for updates.
When things aren't working, just back up a bit.
Make sure you are splitting your exercises thoroughly, and start at the first step (look at hand).
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Re: What am I doing wrong?
[Re: Jennifer Skeldon ]
#211879 - 10/08/2008 09:12 AM |
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If the clicker is 'loaded' (dog knows click=treat), and it sounds like it is, than the only thing that's really important is the timing of the click. The food can come right away, within a couple seconds, whenever (within reason). The dog doesn't need to think about what he did to deserve the treat, they don't really think that way. They tend to repeat what ever it is that they were doing the instant they were reinforced (heard that 'click', knowing that it's going to be backed up with food).
Click the instant Kota touches your hand with his nose, then treat. Move around and do it in different places, and try to keep it upbeat. Don't give in to his trying to use other behaviors to get clicks/treats, only click/treat the one you are working on. If Kota loses interest after three or four touches, put the food and clicker up for awhile and try again later. Keep him always wanting more.
Once the dog is offering a behavior (like sitting without being asked) it's time to give it a name. Once the behavior is on a cue (name) it only gets clicks/treats when it was asked for.
Some folks kind of do it all at once: Like say 'sit' while using food to lure the dog into a sitting position, which is faster and just as kind and positive. That's okay too, just click (or mark however) when the dog is doing what you like, then treat as usual.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#211881 - 10/08/2008 09:16 AM |
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If you are clicking when he's just looking at your hand, perhaps he thinks that's what he needs to do to get the reward.
If you are marking (clicking)for touching, and also for just looking, in the same session, I think that would be confusing for the dog.
When I taught this, I waited until the dog actually touched my hand with her nose, before I marked and gave the reward. If she just looked, but didn't touch, I did not mark. I also would give her a negative reinforcer 'No, not that!', in friendly, upbeat voice.
Start again with clicking only for touch; make sure you are not anticipating the touch and clicking too soon; after you click, wait a few seconds to give the reward.
If you are repeating more than 3 or 4 times, and he ignores you, he may be bored, or your treats are not of a high enough value. Use bits of real meat and you may see his focus improve!
Once he is consistent for a couple of short sessions, add the word to the behavior...
(What Kristel said! we were posting at the same time...)
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Re: What am I doing wrong?
[Re: Lynne Barrows ]
#211933 - 10/08/2008 09:23 PM |
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Wow, great insight, thanks guys!!
If you are marking (clicking)for touching, and also for just looking, in the same session, I think that would be confusing for the dog. this makes sense. We were doing this, and most of the touching was really close sniffing and not touching. My hand smells like treats from the last time he got a click, so he just wanted to make sure he didn't miss any ![;) smiley for ;)](http://leerburg.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) . I was also double clicking when he did a hard stare (I know, I know I'm trying to stop). Sometimes I get more excited about him learning something new than he does
In all his past training he's gotten a 'good boy' for learning to heal, stay, etc. Can I add that or should I keep vocals to a minimum. For example, can I click then get excited, or just click and be happy inside?
I think I will back up and just click when he looks. Then when he has the look down move on from there. I'm also going to re-read the article.
Should I throw in a few sit/down/stand stuff in between so it's not just a session of teaching, but something to keep his confidence up? He's HIGHLY motivated, and the positive no, try again helps him a LOT.
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Re: What am I doing wrong?
[Re: Jennifer Skeldon ]
#211957 - 10/09/2008 08:37 AM |
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I use 'yes' as a marker too sometimes, and I loaded the word just like I did the clicker. If I'm teaching something new though, or trying to shape a behavior into something better (faster, straighter, etc.) I like the clicker best. It is my dog's special sound, and there is no mistaking it's meaning. Once the behavior is learned on a cue 100% you can play around with it a little, but until that point all should be very consistent and clear; one marker signal.
I would BIG TIME avoid the double click. All you want to convey to your dog with the click is "yes, that's right". If my dog does something I'm extra happy with, I'll give him a few treats instead of just one, or play ball with him for a few minutes to express my sense of 'yippee!'. How excited you get depends on the dog. I tend to be enthusiastic and happy, but keep outright excitement to a minimum. My dog is very active and easy to wind up, so I avoid doing things that get him wound. Your dog may be entirely different. It's a judgment call. Your dog needs to see your joy, but active excitement isn't necessary and can be distracting.
When you are working on a behavior, teach one thing at a time. If you want to break it up a bit with a known behavior, that's okay as long as it's clear to the dog you are shifting gears. Even better, start a training session with the new behavior, and end with something he knows well to keep his confidence up. Keep sessions short too, like only a few minutes long. And mix it up a bit, if you can: Maybe you're teaching him to target your hand in the house, but he's ready for some distractions with 'sit' and 'stay' outdoors. Keeping it fun and interesting (and short!) will keep your dog happy and enthusiastic about training.
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