This will be lengthy, as I want you to have the whole history, so bear with me.

Kodee is 15 mos old now. I got him at 7 weeks old, and immediately started socializing him. My goal when I got him was that in addition to being a pet, he would hopefully be able to be a therapy dog when he gets older. He's been in multiple stores, libraries, etc on leash, and taught to sit automatically when approached in a store. He used to be very friendly to everyone, and never aggressive in any way.

At about 10 mos old, he started hating other dogs. It started out with just barking at them, and got more severe - he would go ballistic when he would see one at a distance, even. I tried strong verbal corrections (NO!), and a pop on the leash when he wore his flat leather collar. It didn't help. About a 1-1/2 mos ago I started using an e-collar for the correction phase of our regular training, and to reinforce his "come" command. It works great. After watching Ed's DVD on using an e-collar, I decided to try it for his dog aggression (if that's really what it is). I know you can make things worse if you stim at the wrong time, so I used Ed's technique. When Kodee would look towards a dog (who would usually be barking at him), I would say "No", and if he didn't look away, I'd give him a low-level stim. This worked great. He got to where he would totally ignore other dogs at a distance, but not up close (like when we walk past each other on hiking trails, etc.

Then, about 3 or 4 weeks ago, he started getting nuts when someone would ride a bike near us. He never paid attention to bikes before, so this was another surprise. I have the impression that since we were usually alone (me, Kodee, and my son in a stroller), that he started taking the bike(r) as a threat, as it was coming towards us quickly. I tried verbal corrections and pops on flat leash, didn't help. Then tried e-collar, which worked with dogs (who were at a distance), but it didn't help at all.

I should mention that most of the time I walk him on a prong now, as it helps so much with his pulling issues (he used to pull to greet/jump up on people), and to lunge at other dogs. This helps me control him, but of course it doesn't help the aggression issues. He never has a prong and an e-collar at the same time. It's one or the other when we are out.

NOW he's getting aggressive towards people when there is only 1 person (sometimes 2) walking towards us, usually when we are out alone, walking the trails outside of town. This started about the same time as the bicycle issue. Today, though was worse. I'm pretty positive he would have attacked a guy on the trail today, if I hadn't had him under control like I did (he was on a prong). He meant business today, and actually nipped my leg (didn't break the skin) in his frenzy to get to the other guy. He actually looked surprised at himself, like he didn't realize it was me he was trying to bite. The guy tried to stop and talk to me, and I was like, "you better keep going, he's too upset. So the guy left. One thing I noticed (and today was the first time I've seen Kodee do this), is that as the guy was jogging towards us from behind, Kodee tried to "get away" by pulling me forward and off the trail (I didn't let him). It was like since he couldn't run away from the guy, he turned to fight. The other times he acted aggressively, he never did this. After this incident today, as we were walking back to our car, we had to go up a narrow trail to get to the parking area. An older couple and their 3 grandkids were coming down the hill, so I took Kodee just a few feet off the side of the trail, to a bench, and put him in a down. My son and I sat on the bench. I was worried about walking too closely to the 5 people coming down the hill, and I was still shaken from the way he acted towards the man. These people came down, and Kodee paid no attention to them at all. Stayed in the down, completely relaxed and smiling. I still didn't let the kids near him, as I wasn't sure what to expect out of him at this point.

Now, the thing I can't figure out is this: If we walk downtown in a really busy area, there can be tons of people pedestrians, cars, trucks, even a train sometimes, and he's perfectly happy! He is relaxed, obedient, smiley - no problems with people in groups whatsoever. But when we are out away from lots of people, he is totally different these days. He is still intact, and although I don't want to neuter him, I'm wondering if it would help. I also know that there is some kind of training issue that I've screwed up. Maybe using the prong for some circumstances and the e-collar for others? They are both helpful in a lot of ways, but I can't figure out this aggression that has developed in the last few weeks.

Please help me - I love this dog to death and have worked so hard to train and socialize him. He used to act great, and now he's like a different dog in some situations. I know I must've screwed up something big-time.

Sounds like your dog is defensive and has fear aggression, when something is supicious to him and that trigger his defensive behavior and since he is on the leash that he can't run he has to fight. The quickiest way to fix this is that he must have more fear of you than other people in supicious situation, you will need some help for strangers, first run the dog and wear him out, put a muzzle on him and take him where it will trigger his defensive behavior, the second he goes nuts, corrected him hard and demand immediate OB,(assuming that he understand OB command)make him sit, I don't know how hard you can correct him but he must see god, then have the stranger approach closer and just talk and in normal fashion then walk away, do this many times and you should have a fix.

Surely there is a positive way to fix this that doesn't involve severe correction? The dog is afraid, not dominant, so wouldn't correcting the living snot out of him only make it worse?

I am no trainer, but I have a dog that does this to other dogs. I have recently started to mark(click) and reward whenever he sees another dog (and before he starts barking). I am hoping that he will start to not see other dogs as a threat. So far I have seen some progress, but it is still early.

I hope you can fix this in Kodee.

assuming kodee is afraid....i'm not sure that correcting the snot out of him is best. BUT i don't know for sure.

luc when i first adopted him was a bit like this - especially if we were in a quiet place, and someone approached us - especially if i had my back turned or wasn't paying full attention - he would react, varying from growling/barking to (at campsites) going to the end of his tie out and posturing and growling/barking.

at the time i took him to trainers who were recommended to me by SchH clubs, supposed to know about aggression - and they had me correcting him and being hard on him. the only thing that really came out of that was that i ended up with a dog that was a basket case whenever we went to a training session, who would shake and shake and have his tail tucked between his legs. i fired them.

what i ended up doing - i did correct luc once, and since we were running he was on a harness and it was a soft correction. really what changed his behaviour was us bonding more, and him learning that i would take care of all 'incoming' situations, not him, and him coming to trust that. i used obedience (having him sit) and giving him verbal corrections to work through his fear aggression, and while i wouldn't claim him to be the strongest-nerved dog out there, it worked.

luc and kodee's situations are different, so i'm not sure my experience is helpful. i guess i would also wonder if he is being fear aggressive in those situations, if correcting the snot out of him just wouldn't serve to have him end up connecting things he's already afraid of with yet something else negative. but those are just questions of mine....

eta: harshly correcting him probably is the QUICKEST way to fix this behaviour, but in my limited experience with fear aggression, it's not the best. but, you know, i'm no training genius. is there anyone near you who could help w/his issues?

you'll fix it though, don't worry.

Kori, I'm not sure but it kinda sounds like you've bounced around with different corrections and collars without a real plan for training him. Maybe you need to work his ob at a distance from people and dogs that can help you build up his confidence. I think you may have better results if you show him what you do want before you go into stopping him from doing what you don't want.

Hi Kori. I've followed your posts and read your description of Kodee's behavior, and it doesn't sound to me like you've done anything wrong. It DOES sound like you may have your work cut out for you though. I've known a few well-trained, well-socialized dogs that grew up to be very reactive adults. I've had one that was not aggressive at all (though you'd never know it by his behavior at times), would follow all commands in any situation, was very well-socialized and respectful, but would still shriek, explode and go air-born when he'd encounter another dog. If allowed to greet the dog, he was fine. He wasn't fearful or nervous, just very reactive to only the one thing. Like Kodee, he was much better on a busy street than when we'd see dogs one at a time out on a trail. Also like Kodee, my dog nailed me (bit) in his frenzy, but just about crapped himself when he realized he had done it. It's still very upsetting though, whether intended or not; I get that.

I tried the usual corrections for this behavior, making sure the timing was appropriate and all that, but it did NOTHING to stop this from happening and made things about ten times worse. I disagree that you should do something to a dog to make him fear you. You have a great relationship with Kodee that's worth preserving by handling this with patience and sensitivity. I think there are times to say 'enough' and dole out a good correction, but an explosive situation needs a calm attitude, not more fuel for the fire. You need to change what's going on in the dog's body and mind. Correcting an adrenalized dog changes nothing.

What has worked for me with dogs like this was some desensitization and higher expectations with obedience training. A trainer friend of mine said to think of whatever my dog was overreacting to as the ultimate distraction, something to gradually build up to. I did some 'parking lot training' at pet stores, doing obedience work with other dogs at a distance, gradually working closer and closer until tolerance is built up. It can take a long time; months or more.

My suggestion to you is to try doing some desensitization this way, keeping things calm and under control. Kodee needs to learn that dogs (and people) don't mean an adrenaline rush, and to learn to have some self-control. As he gets batter at that, and as your obedience commands become a bigger imperative, you can get closer. In the meantime, get Kodee used to a basket muzzle (I know, just temporary though) and get one of Leerburg's awesome weighted vest and keep walking where you walk, getting him good and tired to help you with this. If you encounter (and you will) things that set him off, stay calm and keep walking the best you can. It's better to keep moving with a dog like this, rather than expect them to sit while a major distraction goes by. It's much easier to be calm too, when you know your dog can't bite. As soon as Kodee calms down, do some easy commands so you have an excuse to feed him treats and get him 'back to Earth'. Calm gets attention and treats, explosion gets him nothing. As your parking lot training progresses and you and Kodee become more confident, you can start doing the same things on your trail. The behaviors I've found to be the most helpful are 'look' and 'heel'. When those are solid, you'll be able to hold your dog's attention and heel past anything.

I know this sounds like a long way around the problem, but this kind of thing has no quick fix because you need to fix the dog internally before you get what you want externally, especially considering this is a dog you hope will become a therapy dog. Take your time. Breathe. No blame; just some work to do before you reach your goal, and you and Kodee will probably be a much better team for it.

Yeah Kori, I think Kristel's advice is the better way for you.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I appreciate the input. One of the problems I'm having in figuring this out is WHY did he start acting like this in the first place? He's been trained with positive reinforcement only (treats and play time w/ball) for the first several months that I had him. He's an extremely quick learner, and his basic obedience at home is pretty reliable (not 100%, but we're working on it). I've worked on basic OB out in public quite a bit, since I was training him for therapy work. We've gone out in public, meet/greet people, expose him to different environments (elevators, slick stairs, carpet, tile, lots of traffic, trains, other animals (when they're under control or confined). He did great for a long time. Sat politely to be greeted, walked great on a flat leather collar, etc.

I know it sounds like I've jumped around, but here's the progression of what I've done re: training tools:

Around 8-9 mos I bought a prong, as he started pulling (usually to greet people excitedly, or get to other dogs (more curious than anything). Remember, up til this time, he didn't have any aggression issues at all. I had already worked on him ignoring people and animals when we were walking, and he was great til this age. Before I bought the prong for the pulling, I tried quick pops on the leash with a flat leather collar (preceded by "No") along w/verbal praise when he walked nicely. It didn't help at all. He got worse, and that's when I bought the prong. Not for training, just for control. Then after we had the prong for the general pulling issues pulling, he later started wanting to go after other dogs (I never saw a connection with the prong and aggression, however). The prong was initially only because started pulling, and when he wanted to sniff around/investigate things that were "off the path" so to speak, of where we were walking. It worked great to stop the pulling.

I later bought the e-collar for the "correction" phase of training. I felt that we had gotten to the point after Learning Phase & Distraction Phase, that corrections were needed occassionaly. I also got it so that I could have off-leash control of Kodee on our 15 unfenced acres. It worked really well. I only used it to correct him for disobeying commands he knew 100%.

Ed addressed using an e-collar to teach a dog not to go towards, pay attention to other dogs. He demonstrated how to do it in his DVD. I know that you can make things worse if you time the stim wrong, so I've been careful not to stim him after he's worked up, I stim him (if he doesn't listen to my verbal "no!") when he noticed another dog at a distance. To my delight, it seemed to work great. He went from going nuts when we'd walk past fenced dogs on the biking trails we go to, to not paying them the least bit of attention. But if we met a dog ON the trail, he still went crazy.

Then recently he started going nuts at bikes and people, and now I don't know what to do. I tried using the e-collar to stim him when bikes started coming towards us, since it worked at getting him to ignore dogs at a distance. I was hoping we'd have the same results re: bikes. No improvement at all. He's worse than ever. So I'm thinking I screwed up with the e-collar. I forgot to tell you that yesterday I gave him 2 hard corrections w/the prong when he was trying to go after the man on the trail, and although it didn't seem to help, it didn't seem to escalate him either, because he was about as worked up as he could get, I think, without biting. The only reason I could keep him physically under control was the prong. If he'd been on a flat collar, I'm almost positive the man would've been bitten.

So, I'm thinking of starting over at square one. I thought Id try taking him out by myself (without kid in stroller), and taking lots of really high-value treats (hot dogs or something). And praising/treating him when people/bikes/dogs come towards us. Maybe start by standing a couple of feet off the path? Maybe this is what I should have started with in the first place when the problem came up. I just went right to correction, since we hadn't had that problem before, and I believed he knew better.

What do you think of that plan? Also, why would he go from being totally fine w/dogs/people/bikes, to acting like this? Is it hormones? Adolescence? If it's really fear aggression, I don't understand why it started when it did. I also still don't get why he's fine around people in crowds (crowded sidewalks downtown, at the park, etc), but nuts when we're approached on the trails?

Whoops - Krystal- we were posting at the same time, so I didn't see your response before my last post. Thank you so much for your advice. I will do what you suggest. I never thought of the "parking lot" idea, but that is a great one. It's also nice to know that Kodee isn't the only dog to act one way when there's lot of people around, and totally different when we're out alone somewhere.

I like your idea of keeping Kodee moving instead of sitting down (which was my bad idea til I read your post). As far as a weighted vest, is he old enough at 15 mos to carry at least some weight? He has a nice backpack that I could add weight to, unless a "weighted vest" would work better.

Thanks again, everyone. I was at my wit's end b/c I really don't want to ruin such a wonderful dog. I figure since this is my first pup (since I was a kid), that any problems he has are more than likely a result of my lack of experience. I'm relieved to get such good ideas. I'll keep you posted...

If this dog is ready to bite a man, then he is at the point that his mind is way out of control, you have to snap him out of that mental state, the way to snap him out of that state is a hard correction and immediately go into obedience, this will put him into a submission to you first then to the stranger, once he learned that nothing happens to him when his greatest fear is near, then it will start to desensitize him and he will begin to looks to you more as a leader, if he truly look at you as a leader then he will look to you for protection when he has fear and not defending himself by going nuts, (unless it is a train behavior with defensive protection dogs) and when a new situation comes up that trigger his defensive behavior, he will look to you for leadership and that is when you do OB with him, heeling passing the fear situation, after many experiences like this he will be fine. But like I said, you have to snap him out of that mental state first, if you just stand there and tap on the line, it will only make it worse, if the correction is not hard enough, it will create a confict, making him even more aggresive to the stranger, in Schutzhund, we do this in the bark and hold alot go get a more aggresive bark, dogs is doing bark and hold in the blind, a light correction with the prong will create conflict and will get the dog barking with more aggression. All of the other correction you did before probably just intensify his behavior.