I posted a while back about a minor problem I was having training this boxer puppy to down better. Some suggestions were made to try marker training which I'm unfamiliar with. Things are now going from annoying to really bad. I am not getting the hang of marker training so I tried going back to "luring" with treats and then if he doesn't go down, I give a quick jerk on the leash/choke chain to get him to listen. He then started to nip at my hand when I'd do that. I then, apparently made a big mistake. I decided that I'd try a pinch collar since the choke chain didn't seem to do anything. Now, when I first start the excersize. He'll usually down the first 2 or 3 times. Then it's like a switch flips in his head and he refuses to down. So I give a quick jerk on the leash and he goes completely nuts, flat out bites my hand and jumping, squirming all over the place. I'm very upset right now and feeling like I should have stuck with what I am used to, which is rottweilers. I've never had problems with my rotties before. This is very new to me and I'm really frustrated. I'm also worried because I have 7 and 3 year old boys. I do not want an aggressive dog with them. I want to try to make this work with Kody, but I'm at a complete loss as to what to do now. By the way, he's almost 6 months old now.

Kory

This isn't a breed problem, IMO. This is a handler problem. STOP!

There is so much to address in your post that I would much rather just say: Please start over. Put the prong away. Put the flat collar on him.

He is reacting to very unfair corrections.

I'd do nothing but load your marker for a few sessions. It doesn't actually take a few sessions, but this puppy needs a break.

"To get him to listen," I would teach focus with the look game.

If there is anything here you don't understand completely, post back. Do you know how to load your marker?

Meanwhile, breathe. Frustration has no place in teaching a puppy to down. These should be under-five-minute sessions.

I would do no corrections in my "down" training, and I would work hard to rebuild my bond with this puppy.

I will type out teaching "down" with markers, but for now if you would just do the loading of the marker with some very high-value treats (I mean tiny bits of something like cooked meat, maybe hot dog or cheese bits, not pieces of kibble), and maybe play with him and walk him and remember that you have this dog's lifetime to teach the down. It's going to be easy when you are both calm and happy and the training sessions are short and upbeat. I promise.

For later, after loading the marker and maybe doing some very simple exercises in short upbeat sessions (sit, look), here is how I have taught "down":

In an indoor no-distraction place, with my high-value treats, I ask the dog to sit, then mark and reward. While he is still sitting I draw the treat down to the floor in between his front paws. If he stands up, I just start over. I mark and reward any movement towards the "down" position. I mark and reward pretty regularly here, because I consider "down" to be much harder than sit or even come. I give a major reward after the marker for the actual "down."

After several sessions, if he is doing a good down, the way I want it, then I would name it by saying it just as he is doing it. And I might now use my empty hand to lure him, which is our "down" hand-signal.

I fade the hand signal later if I want to. Keep it if you want it, of course.

I'd set a timer in your case, so that there is no chance of forgetting to break off while everyone is still eager. "Leave him wanting more" rather than keep working until someone is frustrated (either one of you).

Later, change venues. "Down" in front of the couch is just that: "down" in front of the couch; it does not mean (to the dog) "down" in the front hallway. So lots of venues. No distractions yet.

Add distractions very very gradually and reward even better when the dog has done well under distraction.

I'm no expert at gorgeous "downs," and for that matter I'm no marker expert, but I have taught a lot of dogs to "down" this way, and I guarantee that this will work and that you can both love training.

Training sessions are very high points of my dogs' day, and you can be exactly the same. This will be fun. The dog will love this. The dog will want to elicit that clicker or verbal marker.

I hope that others will add their own tips here.

P.S. Don't miss these:

http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

I have ordered my new DVD!

Just speaking generally here but Boxers don't respond in the same way as a Rottweiler. For the most part they arent as eager to please but enjoy most things that seem like a fun game. The compulsion you tried is going to set you back quite a bit with this dog and leave you with no other choice but to start over like Connie is telling you. You also made a big mistake by not ending on a success. After he did it 2 or 3 times you went for another one and then punished him so thats the impression that he's left with. I don't know why you think he's aggressive, he just reacted to you unfairly correcting him.

I admit I'm no expert trainer. I've never trained my rotties to do any more than sit, down, stay and come. My last rottie, I did train to heal, that's it. The difference is all my previous dogs did these things so easily and willingly, I never really used any kind of corrections for these things. They just did them once they realized what I was asking for. This dog is just stubborn compared to what I'm used to. I didn't realize that getting him to down more than 2 or 3 times was too many. I'll leave the training alone for a week or so and start over again. The reason I say aggressive is because of the way he went after my hand. He gave a short growl as he bit me, drawing blood. He tore my hand up and his teeth are not all that sharp any more. I guess I need to try harder with the marker training once I start over. Thanks for all the help. I was really upset this morning because I thought I had a potentially serious problem with this dog. I still am unsure a little bit. Some of his behaviour points to dominance in my view, but as I said, I'm by far no expert in this area.

Also, I don't know if this is typical of Boxers or not, but Kody seems to have no interest in chasing balls, toys, etc. He's very food motivated, but just has almost zero interest in toys.

Kory

Kordell, I agree with Connie and the first thing I thought when I read your first post is this really has nothing to do with breed.

I am a first time dog owner, trainer, & now competitor and started off with a Boxer. I can't give you comparisons on training other breeds, but I have put a fair amount of obedience training on my female Boxer. She is not typically prey driven either, she is more food driven and that's what I use most. Here and there I will try to use a toy and when she is into it, her obedience looks incredibly crisp and upbeat. She let's me know when she'd rather have food, and so I stick to that on those days.

I have always used marker training to teach a new exercise to her. Some things she learns faster than others, but it's always been fun for her and she enjoys it as much as I do. I am now working her on retrieving a dumbbell for Schutzhund, and we have gone from her barking and being afraid of the dumbbell to now holding it calmly in her mouth for a second or so. All in about 3-4 sessions of marker training.

Take a few steps back, re-read what you can on marker training and when you're 110% sure your dog knows the command, then you can start using corrections. IMO, I would put that prong away until your puppy is about 1 yr old. I would not worry about your dog being aggressive, and as far as your boys, Boxers are excellent with kids, so don't worry.

I have a fairly hard puppy, but even she will get growly and nippy if a prong is fitted too tightly, or overused. (She will pull against the prong when allowed to, but that's different than a jerky correction.)

Use the correction that is right for that dog. If he was getting growly and nippy with the lighter correction, a stronger correction is going to make that worse. If he wasn't responding to the correction, it may be that he does not understand what you want yet.

Don't correct before the dog is sure what he's supposed to do to avoid the correction. I personally am not good at marker training, but I do use lures and molding to teach the positions I want before I introduce corrections.