Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
#214059 - 10/30/2008 08:33 PM |
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Just adopted a pup from APL 3 weeks ago, pointer mix, 4.5 mos, 18 lbs...has Demodex mange. Dipped her three times with Mitaban and still no change. Started research and decided "raw" was the way to go. Any advise on itchy, hot spot skin and "raw" nutrition. Stopped the horrible chemical dips and tried neem oil shampoo. Started feeding groung meat, egg, yogurt and flaxsead oil. Any advise on skin allergies? Purchased "Natual Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" and "Raw Dog Food". Just learning and need any additional advise I can get!
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Sandy Papageorge ]
#214075 - 10/30/2008 10:40 PM |
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Hi There!
There are many people here with loads more info than I have as I am new to feeding raw and to holistic animal health.
That said, I would make sure that you are also adding a good salmon oil to your dogs diet, also sardines or mackeral too, all good sources of Omega 3's.
My girl had a spot of mange for a while. I chose to not do the Mitiban because of how harsh it is on the immune system. Instead . I opted for a bath made from Borax, peroxide and water for 4 weeks. Then I came across a product called "Bug Arrest" which worked wonders. You can bathe them with this all natural soap and use it full strength if it is localized to a small area.
It is non-toxic and not harmful to your dog. Something to try if you are still struggling with mange. Let me know if you need info on how to get this product.
Are you feeding Raw Meaty bones too? I also somehow remember Connie saying that dogs don't assimilate flax seed oil very well, but hopefully she will post here and correct me if I am wrong. You will also need a good quality Vit. E 200 I.U.'s
I use a good one by Schiff, it is all natural and not synthetic, and has mixed tocopherols.
I am sure that others will have more to add to what I just did.
Good luck with your new pointer mix!!
Joyce Salazar
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#214077 - 10/30/2008 10:54 PM |
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Started feeding groung meat, egg, yogurt and flaxsead oil.
I only ever feed ground meet if I get if free from freecycle. Your dog will do much better on real meat. Physically and mentally. Buy some chicken breasts or leg/thigh quarters. This is the best meat to tart with usually. Don't be afraid, my RR pup started on leg/thigh quarters at 10 weeks just fine. If you're worried, smash up the leg bone with a hammer or mallet.
Faxseed oil is plant based. Dogs, being wolves, are carnivores and can't digest anything plant based. And it can make allergies worse. Go to the Leerburg catalog and order some Grizzley salmon oil. Or buy it some where else. It is so much better for your dog. But like Joyce said, give a good Vit. E with it.
After he has been eating the chicken fine for a few weeks, start adding variety. But go slow to avoid runny poop. The standard proportions for a diet are 80% meat, 10% bone and 10% organs (with half that being liver).
But there is no need to be anal about this. My dogs always seem to get more than 10% bone, and that's OK. It works for them. Just make sure they get plenty of meat.
The yougurt can help, but make sure it is plain, unsweetened yogurt, and has as many different cultures as possible. And eggs are always good.
As to the mange, the solution Joyce mentioned has been said to work great. There is a thread on here some where with detailed directions. I'll look for it. My dog had a small spot of mange that went away all by itself when I put him on RAW.
You've made a good choice for your dog.
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Shody Lytle ]
#214082 - 10/30/2008 11:17 PM |
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Like others have said, the dog needs bones in it's diet.
Find a butcher and see about chicken necks and backs. Turkey necks are terrific too, and my dog adores the huge, meaty things.
Feeding kibble would be preferable to feeding only ground (boneless) meat.
Egg and yogurt needn't be fed daily.
I typically feed 2-3 eggs a month, and I feed them whole, in the shell. My dog likes crunching up the shell, and after a quick rinse, it's perfectly safe and healthy.
I usually feed yogurt only when there is a need to (which in your case, a pup with some health issues and stress, there is a good reason to feed yogurt). I'd feed 1tbs every other feeding, and see how well tolerated it is.
I don't feed flax oil at all. I just increased my dog's salmon oil from 2 pumps every couple of days, to 2 pumps every day, just because her skin gets a little dry from all the indoor heat.
Plus, she loves the stinky stuff, LOL.
The biggest thing is to get some Raw Meaty Bones (RMBs), like chicken necks/backs/quarters/wings, into that pup's diet.
Here's a link to a very good diet article on Leerburg:
http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#214123 - 10/31/2008 08:57 AM |
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Thank you! What is the ratio of peroxide, borax and water? I will do some more research on the internet in the meantime and look up "Bug Arrest". I will also order the Salmon oil - cut flax oil and get some meaty bones, vit. E in her diet. Thanks again!
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Shody Lytle ]
#214124 - 10/31/2008 09:03 AM |
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Thank you for all the info...RMB's, Salmon oil, and Vit. E it is, flax out. I do need the ratio of Borax and Peroxide, I'll look for it. Thank You!
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Sandy Papageorge ]
#214127 - 10/31/2008 09:53 AM |
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If the dog has allergies, and raw alone doesn't help, then you need to simplify the diet. Pick one protien (chicken, pork, beef, etc.) and serve that exclusively without the suppliments. If symptoms subside, you can add back one thing each week. If they don't subside, pick a different protien to feed exclusively.
Most elimination diets suggest that you feed a "novel" protien for several weeks, but you may see results with a more economical protien, so unless the allergy is very severe I'd try a chicken diet first.
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Sandy Papageorge ]
#214131 - 10/31/2008 10:35 AM |
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For all the detail you need go to this site:
http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/dog_mange_cure.html
and look for Ted's remedy for mange. It has all the directions you will need.
Also, you can look for "Bug Arrest" here:
http://www.heartlandnatural.com
For the first 4 weeks, I did the earth clinic borax/peroxide/water baths. Then switched to the bug arrest.
I also had switched to an all raw diet which will help immensely.
But remember that it takes time to see the positive changes and doesn't happen overnight. Just stick with the baths and don't worry about the excess borax that get in your home. It will vaccum up easy and it also helps get the mites out of your carpet so that's a plus as well.
Don't be shy about asking any or more questions if you have them, I'd be happy to help if I can.
Joyce Salazar
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Sandy Papageorge ]
#214132 - 10/31/2008 10:44 AM |
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You have received great info --- especially the part about never feeding an all- boneless-meat diet to a dog.
About the allergies (if the dog has allergies):
Canine allergies are likely (in this order, and they are not even close together in frequency) to be (1) flea hypersensitivity, (2) environmental/inhalant, and (3) food.
Food, number 3, is only a small percentage of the number 2 occurrence rate.
Everyone who says that a fresh raw diet is best for an allergic dog is absolutely correct, IMO, and I have seen huge improvement from that switch alone, which supports the canine immune system in a way that a bag of dry cereal just cannot. JMO.
But you seem to be assuming that the allergies (if the dog has allergies) are to foods, and this is not the most likely at all.
Joyce points out that the dog needs fish oil (and don't forget the Vitamin E), and I want to add that I would start that (and replace the flax oil with it) asap.
If you have any chance of seeing a derm vet, this would be my heartfelt suggestion. This dog seems to have more than one derm problem, and dermatology is as huge and complex a field for dogs as it is for humans.
But we are here, and there are some good allergy experts (and lots of raw food experts) on the board (and on this thread).
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Re: Allergic Puppy - Raw Food
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#214134 - 10/31/2008 10:48 AM |
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I just looked at the earth clinic mange cure and wanted to add that what you will use is the Borax 40 Mule Team brand, it can be purchased at Target or at most grocery stores. It is sold as a laundry booster so look for it in the laundry soap isle.
Let me know if you have any questions!
Joyce Salazar
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