I've been considering going to all raw diet for Hambone (10 plus years) for a couple of years, and this site has almost convinced me.

I have in the years past, along with super premium kibble, fed him deer, chicken, squirrel, canned salmon, herring, sardines, yogurt, kefir, and he catches his own mice. My concern is his thyroid. He is now on Thyro-tabs (.4mg once a day) and I need to know if there are foods to withhold from a dog on meds or should I not be concerned.

I also have read a lot of posts and it seems, most of this board feeds organ meats in the morning, and bones in the evening if the dog eats two meals. If so, why is that?

He has had a complete blood work done since his med addition and his thyroid levels are fine and all other levels are at a young dog's level, so I don't see any medical reason not to start him slowly on raw unless this board knows something. (FYI, his vet has always discouraged feeding him any raw meat, so I can't ask him).

He is a little guy at 37 pounds so doing the math, he should get 20 oz of food a day?

I have ordered the catalog from Leerburg and will be ordering the book, "Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats" since I will be putting my 7 month old kitten on a raw diet later.

I want to keep this stubborn guy around.

Thanks in advance,
Jo

With a thyroid problem, I would start very conservatively, at the low end of the amount scale and work your way upwards while carefully watching for rapid weight gain.

I feed one meal a day, because my dog is otherwise not very food driven and will not eat unless she is really hungry.
I have no issues with feeding once a day.
I think most folks feed twice a day because it feel more normal to them, and the dogs enjoy eating twice. Plus, some folks are concerned about bloat, and smaller portions is believed to reduce the risk.

Additionally, some dogs cannot eat their full day's feeding in one sitting, and so they break it up over two (or even three) meals.

It all comes down to what works for you, with your dog's appetite, eating habits, your schedule and your preference. There really aren't that many hard a fast rules with raw feeding, once you learn the basics of meat/bone ratio and how much to feed.

I don't have any knowledge of thyroid problems, so I don't feel comfortable giving specific feeding recommendations. I will research, as I find feeding "problem" dogs interesting.

I do know that this is very do-able. Don't worry about that. I don't think you are going to have to do anything super special or complicated.

Here is the only thing that I remember of the top of my head. It is from the book that you are going to be getting.

 Quote: Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats

Excess consumption of cruciferious vegetables (such as cabbage, broccoli, or kale) may interfere with thyroid function.

I do not know to what degree they interfere, though. Maybe stay on the safe side and not add any of those listed. Vegetables, however important one thinks they are, make up a very small part of the diet. Leaving those few vegetables off the menu forever will have no ill effect on the health of your dog. The flesh and bone of prey animals rule the menu.:wink:

As far as when to feed organs, or other specific parts, it doesn't matter. Any time of the day that suits you is fine.

Good luck, and applause for wanting to better the health of your pets.:smile:

Also, I've heard that switching the cat sooner, rather than later, would be best. Simply because of how picky they can be. They won't be like the dog in regards to holding out if they don't want to eat. You have to be creative and do it on their terms if they don't switch easy. Fasting a cat can quickly lead to health problems, so holding out on a stubborn cat isn't an option.
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/switchingcats.php

Do post back with any questions. There are tons of folks here that should make this switch as easy as possible for your dog.

Mr. Wise,
I checked the link you supplied and was very pleased with what I saw. I also checked the articles listing on side menu and read through some of the studies.

I read an article by Tom Lonsdale, Australian vet, who described how to begin offering raw diet to dog and cat. Very much as this board describes. He does state that sick animals should not be fasted. Having said that, Hambone has in the past fasted on his own and I see no harm in it if he initiates it, but I am hesitant of offering a fast later down the road.

I do have a question about offering "menudo", or stomach intestine. It is ready available here in my area due to a high Hispanic population and is this a good addition to his food?

I haven't started him on the big bone to gnaw on because I can't find any. There is a meat market 20 miles from my house I can try, but until then, what could the alternative be that I can find readily in my supermarket?

He isn't sure about his two chicken wings because I have trained him in the past that this "food" is off limits. But, after I snapped the joints and pretended to eat them, then gave them to him, he happily chewed away and ate all.

I believe this will work and hope to get the catalog soon so I can order the book.

Thank you and Ms. Myracle for your responses.

I never fast my dogs...but I do feed two meals a day. I don't like to feed one large meal to them. My GSD with EPI (a digestion disorder) just can't do one meal a day.

A lot of people start with chicken leg quarters, cheap and easy to find at the grocery store. Also, have you checked your area for raw feeding co-ops? That is how I get nearly all of my supply.

And just for reference, I feed my two active German shepherds (65 and 69 lbs) about 23-25 ounces a day - approx. 13 oz RMB, 9 oz Muscle Meat, and 3 oz. Organ meat.

Thank you for your reference. I re-read my first post, re-did the math, (after coffee), and the most he should get is 17 ounces total of food.

He still patrols 80 acres twice a day, but I am going to start him at the low end (per Ms. Myracle's advice) which would be 13 ounces a day. And, that would translate to about 6-7 ounces of RMB, 4 ounces of muscle meat, and 2 ounces of organ meat? (Man, I wish I had a book!)

Okay, now that I have a "working formula", time to research again the article on this website with sample menu for the week, and research what others are feeding, and hopefully, in a month, he will be on a raw diet.

I bought the Salmon oil and use a short squirt from the pump because I haven't measured how much actually comes out the pump, and I haven't started the Vitamin E, yet, but will. Just curious, why is Vitamin E so important?

PLEASE let me know if I am ever doing anything wrong. I will post his progress and hopefully, I will do the right things.

Thanks for all your help.

 Quote: jo harker

... I also have read a lot of posts and it seems, most of this board feeds organ meats in the morning, and bones in the evening if the dog eats two meals. If so, why is that?

Not sure how that appeared to be true. If anyone does this, it's convenience only, I would guess.

I feed two meals a day to small dogs who can't comfortably eat enough for 24 hours in one meal and to bloat-vulnerable big dogs (deep narrow chest, for one thing), so that means I might as well feed two, period, and I do. They are similar meals.

 Quote: jo harker

He has had a complete blood work done since his med addition and his thyroid levels are fine and all other levels are at a young dog's level, so I don't see any medical reason not to start him slowly on raw unless this board knows something. (FYI, his vet has always discouraged feeding him any raw meat, so I can't ask him).

Do you have access to another vet? I would hate to look ahead to any possible thyroid problems/issues with this dog and know that my vet would probably first blame his diet. In fact, this would be the case, thyroid replacement or not.

I can tell you that I have had two dogs on thyroid replacement and raw diets and both did well. One (rescue) dropped her extra poundage within a few weeks of the switch, which I did soon after she came, as soon as I had her thyroid testing done.

As far as specific foods go, do you know about the effect of kelp and other iodine foods on the thyroid?

How often is his thyroid testing done? When was it last done? By "complete blood work," can you tell us which thyroid tests?

 Quote: Jo Harker

... I bought the Salmon oil and use a short squirt from the pump because I haven't measured how much actually comes out the pump, and I haven't started the Vitamin E, yet, but will. Just curious, why is Vitamin E so important?

I don't know what brand this is, so I recommend squirting into a measuring spoon and finding out how much it is, and then using a gram (1000 mg) per ten pounds of dog, or about 3500 mg to this dog. That's about 3/4 teaspoon.

The E protects the delicate (easily degraded) PUFAs from the fish oil as it's processed.

May I add that I believe this decision is a very good one?

JMO.


Also, how did you come up with two ounces of organ meat? Sorry, didn't do all the math, but 5 to 10% of 13 ounces would be about .65 ounce to 1.3 ounces.

 Quote: jo harker

... I do have a question about offering "menudo", or stomach intestine. It is ready available here in my area due to a high Hispanic population and is this a good addition to his food?

No, that supermarket menudo would be bleached, and what dogs get is much closer to nature.

The bleached offers very little, if anything, special.